Todd, Your not the only educated one here, I worded it just that way because I knew there was going to be a response. Do you read your posts before you hit submit? What is it that you stand for or is it that you are just against CCA. What vested interest do you have in not being a member of CCA. Are you a member of NMTA or NSIA and if your not , why not. Perhaps before you point your finger you should be clear about your intentions and if your involved in a fishing tackle business here what are you doing to promote the fisheries here?

Oh and don't throw in quotes that I did not write. I never said your either with us or against us, get your facts straight at least if your going to quote.Healthy skepticism is good, but there were people that died thinking the earth was flat. Sticking your head in the sand just because it is different isn't smart either...

"Maybe it's time to get over your extinct career and spend your time more productively than trying to get revenge on CCA FL."

My Answer: I am an American that is fighting the CCA from destroying our democracy. If you want evidence that the CCA are lobbying agaist American Citizens having constitutionally guaranteed due process, just ask. They have succeeded in Florida, and if you aren't careful, you'll see exactly what I am warning your posters about in the future. Droves of CCA members are becoming angry at the CCA. Check out the 95% recreational Florida Sportsman Magazine Website posts.

There are NOT any more fish in Florida than 10 years ago... Scientific fact... The CCA is now blaming the environment. By-the-way, we do have 3 million anglers in Florida, and I am not against any of them fishing.

To those who mock my knowledge of the CCA and claim that I'm just an angry net fisherman, you obviously don't know who I am and what I am about. Senators, Representatives and High Court Judges that are NOT backers of ANY commercial fisheries agree with me since the proof is overwhelming. If you take time to READ, WATCH and LISTEN, you will eventually see that everything I told you is true. WHY do you think the Chief Judge of the 1st DCA (In the video) asks the FWC/CCA backed attorney if they can do anything, no matter how irrational it is? ... And without any court oversight? It's because they can. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE CCA TAKES HOLD IN A STATE. Constitutional due process is eventually destroyed. The Chief Judge in his decision posted on my site warns of the danger to ALL citizens if this "IMPERIOUS" form of government is allowed to exist and expand.

...And yes, I consider myself an expert on the CCA and what they are REALLY up to since I've been dealing with them on a government level for over a decade. I don't just here their mouthpieces or read their literature... I witness the internal and external realities of the CCA.

As I expected, when I immediately told the truth that I was a commercial netter, (which should not matter to a person with an open mind), many of the CCA members would not read my posts... But hey, I am used to it and am always truthful no matter the outcome.

I'm mainly fighting for basic guaranteed constitutional rights that have been denied US citizens that fought in wars. Maybe you only care about yourself, what you can profit and what you like to do, but I care about those who risked life and limb for my freedom. Possibly the concept is beyond your grasp, but that it what I'm about. I am the son of a career Military man. (Deceased) Perhaps my father is where I got my fervor from about this country and those who fought for it.

"One thing everyone should remember is that CCA is a non-profit org. The organization is not out to "make a buck" nor are they motivated by other ulterior motives."

I guess that Ted Forsgren, Florida's CCA mouth, making way over $100K per year salary before the perks isn't making a "profit." The CCA organization is made up of mostly "elitists." I said MOSTLY! Those "elite," as you can tell by their profiles, don't have a lot of need for any more cash.

" CCA exists because anglers want to fight on behalf of the fish and get rid of non-selective fisheries."

You really believe that? Yes, they got rid of gill nets that had a 2% by-catch rate in Florida and replaced it with nets that have a 98% by-catch rate. Those are the facts. And the CCA is fighting tooth and nail to force Florida Commercial Fishermen to KEEP killing and wasting 98% of the fish they catch. Mock the facts if you want... Don't you think that a net that only has a 2% by-catch is even more selective than your average rod & reel catch? I have never caught 49 fish that I sought with only one that I wasn't seeking with my rod & reel. But the CCA lines are parrotted everywhere because people believe what is written and almost never research the facts for themselves. they are toooooo lazy.

Here are the ONLY two things I am fighting for in Florida.

A. A 500 square foot net that does NOT waste 98% of the fish captured. I want to stop the 500 square foot net that is wasting 98% and replace it with a 500 square foot net that wastes only 2% of what it catches. (The CCA is attempting to keep fishermen wasting 98% of the fish) So, who makes sense for the environment economy and citizens? The CCA or me?

B. Equal protection of the Law and Constitutional Due Process for everyone. The CCA has helped destroy equal protection of the law and constitutional due process in Florida. The continue to pour massive amounts of their budget into stopping ALL Americans from having Consitutional Due Process. (In Florida, and beginning the process in other states.) Who makes sense? The CCA or me?

It's all documented facts. I KNOW where some of you get your Koolaide Drinking attitudes. I once WAS that way with stock from a company called "Agribiotech." I stood by the company on ALL of the message boards with blind faith as the company cooked the books and destroyed my savings. I learned too late that I was simply a Koolaide drinker. So, I am not throwing stones at you, I've been there... I grew up and learned to listen, read and observe. If not for the grace of God, there go I.

I hope you will heed my warning to look into exactly what you and your resources are facing if the CCA takes control. I'm not going to post anymore because there is too much going wrong in my home state due to the CCA. I've too much work here.

I appreciate the post that stated that the CCA was doing the EXACT SAME THING up there... Someone is observant. Thank you.

PS I've dealt with government from the NE so much that I mistakenly referred to you guys as from the NE. My bad> NW...NW...NW!

Best of luck to all and happy fishing. E-mail me if you have any questions. Dave Grix

There's no constitutional right to fish. With a hook OR with a net OR with dynamite.

Now the CCA is a un-American Commie Plot run by the bourgeoise who's sole aim is to torch the U.S. constitution and make hard working red-blooded veterans starve to death in the streets?

Puh-leeze.

We've heard THAT one before. That's what we were told about people who thought invading Iraq was a bad idea. In fact it seems to be the National slander applied to anyone opposed to anything supported by any industry that's currently reaping billions in profit.

Will the next corporate shill please stand up?

The more sh*t like this I hear, the more I want to write "CCA" on a check.

I dont know if it's balls or ignorance for him to make the association with the Men and Women who have served this country, but the fact that he has repeatedly brought God into the argument scares me. -T

Oh [censored] Cowlitzfisherman has moved to Florida and still posts! Will it never end???????????

So is that why the CCA worked to get the "Freedom to Fish" bill put before congress?

Have you read the National position on MPA's??? It reads quite the opposite.

As far as CCA not being from the PNW so they have no credibility...that is nuts.

We CCA Members include some giants in NW fisheries. CCA is not picking our fights and our priorities. That is the job of our membership.

CCA is showing us how to get results. Something we have lacked in the PNW. The ability to be heard in a collective voice.

Wow! That CCA is one sneaky bunch. Here I just thought they were working on fisheries conservation issues. Now I see they are hell bent on destroying democracy. I do hope they work on the destroying democracy thing after they solve some of our fisheries issues.

Dave FFF VP,

It appears CCA's work in Florida is far from complete if gillnets that take 2% in bycatch have been replaced with gillnets that take 98% in bycatch. If CCA is the best thing since sliced bread, I'd like to read that CCA's efforts have resulted in the complete removal of gillnets in Florida, resulting in a 100% elimination of bycatch.

If you're going to post on a sport fishing BB like this and discuss any merits whatever of a gillnet fishery, you would better serve your interest by establishing the social and economic benefits of said gillnet fishery and why another use of those resources IS NOT a higher and better use to society. You see, most of us are not against commercial fishing, and some of us aren't even opposed to gillnetting, provided it is consistent with conservation, with conservation meaning "wise use," where recreational angling is generally recognized as the higher and better use of fish resources due to the greater social and economic benefits derived to society. So if the fish you catch in your gillnet might be taken by recreational fishing, most of us regard that fish as being allocated to a lower social and economic benefit to society overall, even though it may benefit your and your customer chain. If you can establish that your gillnet fishery is indeed the higher and better resource use, you just might find a little sympathy here.

As for your crusade in behalf of Constitutional rights, that is a separate subject, and would be more effectively discussed separately. Otherwise you appear as a fool by apparently aggregating your anti-CCA, pro-gillnet, and Constitutional rights in the same crusade.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo g.

Very well said. Thank you!

Something,

Todd belongs to the WSC. Considering how much time he spends harrassing wild steelhead, its probably another allocation group. The mission statement isnt written exactly the same, but the basic elements of the problem and cause and effect match up with CCA. Probably not so much with Trout unlimited, which he use to be a member of, or may currently be. TU was most successful in telling its members they werent going to do what the members wanted. Up pops PSA. I guess the affiliation was too much for Todd. According to TR, he left PSA.

For the most part, most of these groups have done a terrible job, recruiting and raising enough money to hire the heavy hitters and become power players. Too many groups, to many objectives and pet projects. You wont hear Todd, selling WSC. Its all about shutting down the other salesman.

Its really no different than religion or soft drinks. Coca Cola owns a bunch of fizzle drinks and several water drink companies. Together with Pepsi and others, they want to cover the globe. But fish groups arent into that. So when a stranger comes to town, its a turf war. Its either that or because Todd is bored. Ive never seen another WSC leader take on CCA the way Todd does. In fact, I think they sent an auction item to a recent cca banquet. BTW Thanks.

I dont speak for cca and Im not an officer, I saw the achievements and put my chips on the table. If that threatens some people, too bad. You havent got enough money or members, to get this done by yourselves. drink sugar free cca.

******************************************************************************************

Wild Steelhead Coalition Mission and Objectives


The Wild Steelhead Coalition is a Federally Recognized 501c(3) organization; as such your donation is completely tax deductible and may qualify for funds matching through your employer

The Wild Steelhead Coalition Mission Statement

The Wild Steelhead Coalition (WSC) is an organization dedicated to increasing the return of wild steelhead to the waters and rivers of the Pacific Northwest.

Beliefs of the WSC

Wild steelhead are an important legacy to the Pacific Northwest and have undeniably been reduced to a fraction of their once historical capacity.
Over harvest, habitat degradation, poor hatchery practices, construction of impassable barriers to migration, and misguided management strategies have all contributed significantly to the decline, and in some cases extinction, of wild fish runs.
Without a change in policies and attitudes, these same factors will continue to reduce and extirpate wild steelhead.

<>

Koolaid, yah right. Todd, I am a member of the CCA, what I would like is a fair chance at doing something good for fish, and maybe us as well. I believe that the CCA is a new approach to the problems presented to us today. I would like the opportunity to either rise to the occasion, or fall flat on my face, is that asking to much.

Is he keeping you from doing that? He disagree's with you so what, I can't understand why you guys continue to debate with him. It's not going to change his opinion or yours. All it does is drag [censored] on and really does no good. CCA people should just stay out of internet debates because most are out of Todd's league when it comes to debating the issue's and it just makes you look bad and it does nothing to accomplish your goals and sometimes turns people off.

P.S. Check out this nice bumper sticker

http://www.zazzle.com/anti_coastal_conservation_association_bumpersticker-128491701681996060

LB, As a leader for the WSC, I wish the CCA the best and am not concerned about a turf war. I hope they can do something good for the fish. The WSC has remained focused on steelhead, that is our niche and won't get dragged down into other issues. We will continue to our part and hope people will join us [ if you or an organization think they can do it alone, well....]. I believe, in the end the, CCA will have humility that they need other organizations help and use those resources to make well educated decisions. I hope the they are fish first and opportunity second type organization. I hope CCA take the first step to join in on the Steelhead Summit Alliance meeting, actively participate and show the ability help create a true coalition. If you post the WSC mission statement, I urge you to post the whole statement and also look at the strength of our supporters. Here's to wild fish in our future.

Well said DH. LB goes WAY overboard whenever someone has even the slightest concern about the direction CCA may take. Its like you called his momma a bad name! Like CCA is his personal identity or something...

Hey Big Daddy....summers over, you're the mayor of shark city...these people think you wnat the beaches open...

Time to close this MF'r.

Lead Bouncer,

As far as TU goes you are correct in that SOME of it's members, back in the 80's I believe, did not like what TU's priorities were so they left and up sprang PSA. TU loses members all the time who think that TU is too soft on allocation issues. TU loses members all the time who think TU spends too much time on allocation issues. That's life in fishing organizations. PSA is a fine group and they battle hard for recreational opportunity. For some people however, harvest is not first on the list when it comes to their fish related priorities. What I don't get is how getting a bigger piece of the harvest pie is considered "conservation"? Don't get me wrong, I believe we need to fight for our fishing opportunity and my hat is off to those who try. I applaud those who participate at North of Falcon. But for me, I'd rather spend my time and money focusing on the beginning part of the spawner/recruit curve then the end part of it.

Beezer

If CCA is the enemy of commerical gill netters, they will likely be a friend of mine!!

RM

Beezer,

People often confuse conservation with preservation. They are different. Preservation means to maintain a resource with zero allocation to human use, except possibly viewing like at the zoo or in a national park. Conservation has long been defined (coined by Gifford Pinchot I think) as the "wise use" of natural resources, so most natural resource managers intend that conservation will preserve enough abundance that some of the resource can be allocated to human use. "Wise use" implies that the resource is allocated with priority to the "highest and best" use. Highest and best use has generally been interpreted as that use which yields the greatest social and economic benefit. Recreational fishing yields more social (hours of recreation per fish) and economic ($ per fish) benefit than commercial fishing for the fish species being discussed (salmon and steelhead). This logic path concludes that allocating fish for recreational priority over commercial harvest is entirely consistent with the commonly understood principles of conservation.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

LeadBouncer, as with most of the other issues, the stuff yer now expounding about needs to be actually researched, and not just shot from your hip...you're virtually wrong on all accounts.

When the CCA discovers that it won't be able to do anything on its own, it will have alienated everyone else already with their "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I know it's all your fault" scenarios that you self-appointed internet CCA ambassadors are shoveling.

At least it will give you more people to blame things on.

Fish on...

Todd