The Rodney Dangerfield of the fall salmon world... that would be chums.

The ESU for coastal chum is HUGE... it's called the Pacific Coast ESU, and it includes the OR coast, Willapa Bay, Grays Harbor, and the N Coast WA.

The question is what has to happen to get these fish on the recovery radar screen? OR coast stocks have been seriously depressed for years. Willapa and Grays Harbor stocks are on a 10 year downhill slide toward scary low numbers. I have no idea about the N Coast WA component.

Three of the four components are already toast. When the ESU is so huge, do they ALL have to crash before ESA protections are invoked?

Just looking for a little respect.

Salmo g? Smalma?

I respect them in that they are a native species of fish, getting pushed to the brink like most others in the northwest.

Instead of Rodney Dangerfield, I would personally probably compare them more to that big ugly guy on goonies. Oddly proportioned, toothy, misshapen, strangely colored, strong as an ox, but bad eatin.

i enjoy fishing for them, but only if i'm going to hook into enough to wear my arms out. none of that "nisqually river chumathon" [censored] combat-flossing to maybe hook 1 or 2 in a morning.

unfortunately, 30 or 40 fish morning trips have gone from something that was as sure as things can be in fishing, to a real rarity in the past 6 or 7 years. i grew up fishing for them mostly on the satsop and chehalis, i only saw a handful in that river this year where it used to be black with them.

something is seriously wrong with the runs in grays harbor.

something is seriously wrong with the runs in grays harbor.

It is called commercial fishing, both tribal and non-tribal running unchecked year after year.

Throw in some wasted habitat and there you have it!

I fear there importance tp our fisheries is yet to be realised.I know the canal runs have been slautered the last ten years.I wonder what effect not having the carcasses fertilizing our rivers and streams is truly going to be.The smolt in the spring supply an important food source on there way out to our oceans.I also fear that they are a huge food source out in our oceans.They reproduce low in our systems.They have to be able to withstand our high water events.I think they do this with large numbers spawning every year.Now that we do not have the high numbers spawning I fear we may actually see a major collapse and our fisheries finally shut down.There saving grace is it is so easy to subsidise there numbers with breeder boxes stream side.

The Rodney Dangerfield of our fisheries I am afraid is truly a prince charming.

i enjoy fishing for them...here in the canal it has been like bristol bay...i have never seen so many nets and boats fishing for them...bottom line they are getting quite a bit of cash from those fish...and less people will notice them being gone...c

It's not what sportsmen feel is important to a run...It's what WDFW and the commericals want to do about the decreasing runs of all species of salmon.

It has been said before....and here it is again.......can't have "gill netting" 4, 5 to 7 days a week and expect runs NOT to decrease. Duh, not long and we'll be shut down like Oregon and California, only thing that really saves our asses right now......hatchery runs of planted fish, no plants = no fishing!!!!

I've been retired since 1997....in that time the Chum runs in the Chehalis system has gone from seeing "thousands per tide", to almost none.......never have actually fished on Chum but 1997 - 2000, couldn't keep a "wrapped plug" out for any length of time........rod down!!!!

Sure the floods have probably washed lot's of Redds out .... but the real damage is being done in the lower rivers, net, net, net. Limit netting to 2 -3 days a week, total ...... 10 year period, watch all runs rebound!!!!!!!

They don't get respect and I don't target them,but are fun to catch on a slow day of coho fishin.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

Just say no to river perch=chum.

When i was on my trip over to quinault lodge to do some work i was asking about chums, due to the time of year i thought it would be something to fish for over there..........I was surprised when i was told that the coastal rivers dont get big runs of chums........Im not gonna give reasons because i have no idea , but would love to see runs over on the coast as large as the ones we used to get on the snohomish system......i say used to because since the heavy gill netting off of the shore of mukilteo, we havent seen a fantastic chum run in about 5-6 years...................

The Chum run is at a critically low level and they should be protected. Last year alone the QIN and Non-treaty commercial fishers took at least a reported 2007 fish from a forecasted return of around 10,000 fish for the Grays harbor Chum the actual return calculated by WDFW was 9018 fish and of those returning the QIN took 1766 Chum from the Chehalis River side alone. I have to agree with DrifterWA on this one the net schedules for Fall fisheries in grays harbor must be reduced from 5-7 days a week so that more Chum can reach the gravel. Chum used to be in many more streams and tribs than they are currently listed as present. The South Fork Chehalis, Lincoln Creek, the Newaukum, upper mainstem Chehalis, Bunker Creek, Garrard Creek, Independence Creek, and Scatter Creek. I know at least one was seen on a recently opened passage barrier on a trib of Garrard Creek. The Black River used to have huge runs with many fish going to the far reaches of it's tribs. The loss of these fish has created degraded habitat for other species that rear in the Chehalis by providing less nutrients, and less removal of fine sediments through mass spawning during high flows.

In the future the Grays Harbor Chum may have to become ESA listed for protection in the harbor and the upper river. I would hate to see what kind of problems that could cause for everyone.

They are a just a notch above Pinks who are on the bottom in my book for salmon. Because Chums they are more fun catch then pinks .

I have all the respect in the world for a 20lb Skagit Chum...you want to see if your gear is up to snuff go hook that fish in fast water. I have seen the Skagit run get DECIMATED the past few years and believe the Sky run has been equally exploited. Just a few years ago you could walk across the chums in sections of those rivers and they simply were gone the past few years.

They have been nearly netted into oblivion in less than one life cycle, they feed the eagles and provide a ton of nutrients in rivers that dont have much...but hey wiping em out cause the Asians will pay big $ for the eggs is whats important here...

The value of chum roe should ensure continued respect for chum salmon by the commercial fishing industry. Chum salmon popularity in sport fishing seems to have coincided with reduced sport fishing opportunity for chinook and coho.

The PC ESU is large geographically but not so much in numbers in contemporary times. The LCR chum have been ESA listed for 10 years or so now. I've read that the OR chum have been protected from fishing for at least a decade, but that they are showing no sign of rebounding. From what I hear, ODFW doesn't know what is presently limiting their chum populations. My thought is that OR chum are the natural southern limit of the species' range, and therefore they would be most vulnerable to any factors correlated with natural range, like climate change, ocean temperature changes, ocean feed supply changes, etc.

We've thought that LCR chum were limited by seasonal and peaking operations of Bonneville Dam, dike and levy projects on LCR tributaries, and the general degradation of the Columbia River estuary.

WA coastal chum fall into two catagories, the Willapa and GH populations that occur in estuary systems, and the north coast group that occur in rivers that lack significant estuary systems. While climate and ocean conditions may play a role in the condition of Willapa and GH chum, I'd first look at the effect of the coho gillnet season on chum. If the incidental catch is greater than 10% of the chum run, as indicated by catch records posted in this thread, when the runsize is below the escapement goal, then the co-managers are failing to manage for chum conservation, perhaps in a zeal to achieve coho harvest.

The north coast rivers are not chum salmon systems, and are unlikely to host major chum populations due to lack of significant estuaries.

Considering the status of the OR coast chum, the LCR chum, and the southern WA coast chum, a petition for listing under the ESA may be in order. While it wouldn't eliminate over fishing during coho fisheries, it would reduce it.

Sg

I truly respect chum, mostly because almost every bright lil chum fights like a 15 lb springer that has a fire hose behind it.

Doc,

Your right I would consider them the Rodney Dangerfield of the salmon species. I suspect most would not give them a second look after there gone also.

But here in the south sound, when the chums look like this...I give them all the respect they deserve. Mind you, I still did not keep any. But they were alot of fun to catch and release!



Winterun

RE: chongo469

While it is true the 2007 and 2008 Snohomish chum escapements were low, the 179,000 in 2006 was the HIGHEST since at least 1982, the 155,000 in 2002 was the second highest, and the 127,000 in 2004 was the third highest, and the 100,000 in 2003 was the highest odd year since at least 1982.

There has been overall consistent positive growth rate in Snohomish chum escapement since 1982. Not bad for the only species in the basin that has regular directed commercial and sport fisheries.

I agree there was a fishery management error in 2007, but we are working to correct that. Let's at least try to get our facts straight when we discuss these things. Thanks.

What difference does past escapement mean when the commercials have been allowed to almost wipe the returning fish out the past two years??? Ok, so a bunch of fish are expected back from the 06 class this year correct? The netters should be excited bout that!

So what are you expecting back in 2010/2011 based on the horrible management/escapement from 07/08? It seems to me that it only takes 3-4 years of successive mismanagement/miscounting/miswhatever to seriously and permanently deplete any run of fish be it steelhead or salmon. Whatever keeps the sushi crowd happy seems to be the #1 priority.

RE: summerrun

Actually, it's quite the opposite. The forecast is poor this year, based on the outmigrant fry index. Whatever the relationship of that is to the 2005 and 2006 escapements, I don't know, but the fry index has been a pretty good predictor, and we go with that. The technical people will be recommending that initial commercial and sport regulations be set based on the forecast numbers and management objectives.

I'd be happy to explain more, if you are interested in learning about this. But if you would rather just complain, then I will butt out. Your choice.

Not sure what you mean by the "sushi" crowd, though.

I think he means that the chum salmon are being harvested to send roe overseas to make sushi...

No Two Dogs, I am all ears. Just basing my anger on what I have seen IN THE WATER not on paper the past two years and yes from what I hear the chum egg prices took a steep rise in Asia and the interest in and exploitation of these runs was exponentially higher the past 2 years than in any past years..someone let that happen, was not me.

You sound like someone on the front lines of this and I am not. Something bad happened in 07/08 so please get very specific on what happened the past two years as that interests me the most..cheers