I like your last post Doc I think that sounds well thought out and if Wild Coho are available it would seem a nice time to take some of the early returners.

Based on past experience I don't see anyway to have a Sept 1 opener and protect Chinook. I am open to ideas but when this has been done in the past it simply has not worked.

Understand I loved the days when there was no opener or it opened in May. But I think those days are gone....openers draw crowds of inexperienced fisherman, inexperienced fisherman don't know the river, don't understand where the Kings are primarily in comparison to where the silvers are and therefore Kings are caught. I don't like being negative but can we really risk the King mortality to catch a few jacks and silvers.

JimB

Hans .. i dont belive either of the tribes especialy the Quins.. Its just that biolo is biatching about the Quins not doing things right but yet the chehalis tribe aint doing it either..

Francis and Joe,

Thanks for the time you've put in. It's was hard for me to speak up with much authority at the meeting because I have not spent the time with the data as you two have. Nor do I have a good understanding of the realties of any one proposed season because it's been you two having discussions with WDFW personnel and I don't have any idea what was thrown around privately. (Well, a little better idea now)

You guys didn't propose anything I had a problem with. Most of it sounded pretty skookum.

Yet, I came away from the meeting with the feeling I usually do at these.....a bit of frustration that what needs to change isn't going to. Granted, they were open enough to recording and acknowledging our(your) proposals and they seemed willing enough to listen to some ideas about boundary changes and such but when the discussion turned to management philosophy and the need to get a grip on numbers and netting they seemed to want to move the meeting along and be done.

What I need to see and hear from them is some passion about some of, hell, even one of the ideas we bring up that gets more fish on the gravel but doesn't necessarily mimic their way of doing business. We see what's happening continuously in the field. They don't because they rely on paper fish and "indexes" to reflect numbers; what's being caught and what's not. We get the "nod" as they listen, little to no acknowledgement that we have a point (but they'll make a note to look into it.....ever heard that one before?) and the meeting progresses to a hasty conclusion.

Frankly, The management of this basin is so fragmented with players, rules, artificial numbers, processes, "rights" and beuracracy I don't know that the fish will ever have a chance or that we can look forward to routine over-escapements as long as things are done as they currently are. It's a mess and needs a solution now. Sadly, I don't see a solution happening soon and the meeting did nothing to change that.

Good seeing Francis, Joe, Fish4brains, DrifterWA and Casting Pearls.

Eric out.......head'n to the river.

Here is another piece that I have brought up to help stop over harvest and to help reduce pressure and that is a 4 king per season limit on the Humptulips. Now I know most of you will bash me for this but if it gets us more days on the water to catch all those hatchery silvers and gets you out there earlier to catch the first kings in the lower river when they still have sea scales on them then I think it is a good thing.

Peace
Fly

Let me give folks a rundown on the "wish list" that was collected last night (I apologize ahead of time if I miss something here... please chime in with any of my omissions). Please do not crucify the messenger

1) Sept 1 jack fishery upstream to Fuller Bridge, lower boundary ??? Hoquiam mouth, 28th St Ramp suggested
2) Closure of S-curves to Schafer (EF Satsop) thru Nov 30 to conserve chinook and chum.
3) Rescind O'Leahry Creek boundary in MA 2-2
4) Open Area 2-C of MA 2-2 to chinook retention.
5) Chinook gillnet opener in 2-C with 9" mesh.
6) "Hatchery" coho gillnet opener in 2-C with 6" mesh
7) Utilize existing "quick reporting" mechanism to implement a fixed harvest/impact quota for commercial fisheries.

That's about how I remember it except a correction on item #2.....I believe it was proposed to close the east Fork Satsop from the Middle fork(Tornow Branch) up to Schafer????

Joe.. what your purposing on the hump is right on.. id rather see it streched out than just haveing a two week crazy ordeal..

One addition to Doc's #1 above. I think it was proposed that the jack fishery would be with the stipulation that no bait be used. Did I misunderstand?

An annual limit definitely helps spread the effort over space and time. The concept helps to spread the same harvestable number of fish over a greater diversity of users from the estuary all the way up to the upper reaches of the in-river fishing zone.

I believe a similar concept could be used to help move more wild coho through the Chehalis basin... especially to the lower river tribs that are chronically under-escaped.

(Hey Joe, I got a spare flame-resistant foil hat just for you buddy)




BTW annual limits have been something we tried to get at the very onset of the GH Committe meetings years ago. An effort to spread the salmon wealth amongst the full diversity of recreational users (estuary, mainstem, trib). We came in with the idea that if there were enough fish for one user group to harvest, then by golly there were enough for ALL to harvest. If there weren't, then no one should harvest. At the very lowest of harvestable run-sizes (Tier 2) the annual limit would be one. At a little bigger run-size, it would be two..... and so on.... until we got to a clearly harvestable run-size that the annual limits would no longer be needed for conservation and/or equitable sharing.

Under the previous directorship and Region 6 regime, the idea was DOA.

Maybe the time is right to float that boat for a second round?

That was only suggested as a compromise proposal to get around Region 6's objections to excess chinook mortality in a jack fishery with bait.

JimB:

Silver Jacks, silvers, King Jacks are all in the river depending on weather conditions, I've personally caught King Jacks, end of July, granted in was during Nuke Plant construction but silver jacks and small silvers are or can be in the river in August........rain brings them in sooner.

So you understand....there is a "legal fishery for searun cutthroat and summerrun steelhead" June - September at the present time....the September 1 openinger will allow jacks and silvers to be kept.

Now you if are seeing an illegal fishery taking place, for Chinook, something I haven't seen....I suggest you deal with it, call enforcement...that is thier job.

This can be a positive move by WDFW to allow a big supply of jacks and early hatchery silver to be taken by sportsmen.....WDFW, needs some positive image building in Region 6.

[Ohhhhhh it can be a great time for Grand fathers to bond with thier Grand children....while the weather is half way decent.[/color]

Drifter,
All I can tell you is that the last time this was allowed. Boat after, boat after boat, day after, day after day the Lucans hole had guys anchored up CnRing the Kings. Not to mention trollers working the King water so they could catch something.

You and I both know that most rules negatively affect the law abiding. Such is the case here.

Just so you know, you don't have to educate me on the Chehalis river.

I totally agree with you on the fishery you propose. I wish we could, but I personally don't think we dare and that sucks.

What Kings are caught have to be released because they are closed but they are still caught and the hooking mortality on a King in the warm water days of September after a strenuous fight I don't want to know. Its not illegal to hook them...just illegal to keep them and there is the rub.

I won't discuss this point any further because this is the silliest place to have a disagreement.

I emailed you earlier this week with an offer to call me and I will do so the same here but make it available to all.

Anyone can feel free to call my cell: 360.520.1175 Leave a message if I don't answer, I will return your call and love to talk Chehalis.

JimB

Steely Slammer---- The Chehalis Tribe is such a small part of the problem on the Chahalis that it's hard for me to understand your hard-on for them.

jerry-- all im trying to get across is that the chehalis tribe needs to practice what they preach..

and thats all im going to say on this subject..

Great posts everyone. I too, am in favor of a September 1st jack season. I realize the danger to the fall kings in the river, and that there will be some anglers who will choose to make their impact there. Getting a king to bite eggs in that river is probably the easiest bite to get, next to jacks taking eggs. I really think that education and enforcement is the answer, not the current reduction in seasons.

Here is an example:

There is a hole just upstream from my house about a half mile, and it was fished daily by guide boats last season. What they would do was run up there first and anchor off, then have their sports toss eggs with floats for a couple of hours. Invariably all the people aboard would get to reel in one of the boot kings, and get a hero shot so that the guide could relax and then go after silvers, which as we all know is a much tougher bite, especially with beginners. They did this daily until the water finally rose and the kings could leave. The kings were released, and I never saw any illegal activity (by the books) there. I told my local GW that he could go watch them through the brush, I am not sure if he did or not.

If they do open it early for jacks, I think that 2 days of enforcement on Saturdays could cure the river of a lot of this. Have the GW or sherriffs run up to the big king holes, and just tell everyone, that they better be targeting jacks, and they are being watched.

I think that there could be a further reduction in impacts to the kings, if the river is open for hatchery silvers. Then you will spread a lot of people out to try and get fish on hardware. This would really reduce the boat traffic on the opener. So I would even be in favor of a no-bait fishery on Sept 1. This would reduce nearly all impact to the early fall kings, and allow us access to the hatchery silvers which come in the river in big groups and only bite worth a darn the first 2 or 3 days they are there. If you miss the time that they are fresh, they are not good biters. After that they just piss you off.

August 1 opener....no bait until October 15 Coho and Jack retention only (wild release if necessary).

Thoughts?


JimB

We would need a non-bouyant lure restriction.

No bait and some real presence from LE would really cut down on Chinook impacts IMO. This would ber a great fishery and I know that there would be at least 4 more fishing licenses bought in my family alone just for that.

Jacks and hatchery silvers Sept 1, no bait until Oct 15 up to fuller bridge or even Porter. There's a lot of good water between Porter and Fuller.

It's a good compromise with the bait restriction.

I think it makes sense. It doesn't provide for a really effective way of catching jacks, but at best it gets the sport fleet in the water when the silvers are arriving, not after they have arrived and turned stale.