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#544395 - 10/08/09 12:43 PM Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal
rojoband Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 264
Interesting news article:
Detained at gunpoint by Tribal police

Detained at gunpoint by tribal police off-reservation, Brinnon hunters allege


By Erik Hidle
Peninsula Daily News

The state Department of Fish and Wildlife and the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office are investigating the detention of three hunters near Brinnon by the Port Gamble S'Klallam tribal police last weekend.

Both Sheriff Tony Hernandez and Mike Cenci, state Fish and Wildlife deputy chief, said Wednesday they are investigating after Adam Boling of Brinnon filed a complaint with the sheriff's office in which he said he, his 2-year-old son and two friends were detained illegally by tribal police at gunpoint on private property Saturday.

The men were not cited.

Hernandez confirmed that the men were hunting and were detained for an unknown amount of time by tribal police, but said he had no other information and didn't want to speculate.

"We responded that day as an agency assist, and by the time our deputy arrived on scene the incident was over," Hernandez said.

"Still, we are reviewing the incident, as the individual complained they were unlawfully detained."

Both Hernandez and Cenci said that the question of whether or not the detention was legal depends upon jurisdiction: Did the tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal members on non-tribal land?

"I understand there are a number of questions that include jurisdiction and that will all come out in the investigation," Cenci said.

Neither the state nor the sheriff's office had received an official report about the incident from tribal police as of Wednesday night.

Phone calls for comment to Port Gamble S'Klallam Director/Chief of Public Safety Karl S. Gilje Sr. were not returned Wednesday.

Cenci said, "I can confirm, based on preliminary information, that on Saturday afternoon, Oct. 3, Port Gamble S'Kallam tribal police detained a non-Indian hunter, and some of his friends and family, on non-tribal land after he had killed an elk in the Brinnon area of the Hood Canal.


Valid license, permit

"Also, at the time of the incident, the hunter was in an open area for licensed hunters with a special permit to hunt elk with a muzzle loader rifle," Cenci added.

"And yes, the hunter had a valid state hunting license."

Cenci said he expected to have more information Friday.

Both Hernandez and Cenci said they had not defined a scope of the investigation as of Wednesday, and would look at the incident as a whole.

"I plan to call Port Gamble today and request a copy of their report on the incident," Hernandez said.

"I have received an official complaint from a resident of this county that they were unlawfully detained."

Both Hernandez and Cenci said they do not know if any laws were broken by any party.

Boling's account

Boling, 28, said that he, his 2-year-old son, Taylor, Don Phipps and Danny Phipps, both of Shelton, were hunting on private property Saturday morning with a rare elk tag acquired by Don Phipps.

The tag stipulates that a bull elk can be taken with a muzzle loader rifle within certain areas.

Boling said he and his son watched as Don Phipps shot and killed an elk, and then loaded the animal into the back of his pickup truck.

"Then, as we were driving off, two officers came out with guns pointed, screaming that we were under arrest," Boling said.

"He had Don and Danny down on the ground at gunpoint and kept telling me to drop my son.

"I was holding him in my arms, and they were pointing a handgun and an assault rifle at me telling me to get on the ground.

"I had to put him down and he started screaming and crying.

"That was really, really hard for me to see."

In his complaint to the sheriff's office, Boling said he was detained for two hours while tribal law enforcement conducted their investigation.

"It was easily two hours," Boling said. "I kept telling them they had no right to do this, but they kept going.

"I called the sheriff Monday morning and am currently in the process of getting an attorney."


Tribal jurisdiction

Jefferson County Sheriff's Sgt. Mike Stringer, a former officer with the Suquamish tribe, gave a brief definition of how he viewed the jurisdiction of tribal police.

"They can detain anyone on the reservation," Stringer said. "The complication comes when they detain someone off the reservation.

"Unless they are policing tribal members or have a cross-commission from the sheriff, they really can't."

Hernandez said the Port Gamble S'Klallam tribe has no commission in Jefferson County.

Also, Stringer said that the amount of time the men were detained could be important.

"A reasonable amount of time to detain an individual is 15 to 20 minutes," he said.

"Still, we don't know how long the men were detained yet. We need to wait for the report."

At least one eye-witness to the incident, C.J. Schaffer, 28, from Brinnon, agrees with the two-hour timeline.

"It was definately two hours," Schaffer said.

"Maybe a few minutes shy or a few minutes longer, but it was right around two hours, no problem."

Feels bad for son

Schaffer, a friend of Boling, said he felt the worst for Boling's son.

"It has to be traumatizing for that kid," he said.

"I've never been more scared in my life, so when I saw the poor kid running around and crying while Adam was in custody I asked the officers to let me take him.

"Thankfully, they did. Still, that was the craziest thing I have ever seen."

Boling said he intends to follow through with both an investigation, and potentially a lawsuit, but it will never repair the damage he believes his son suffered in the incident.

"My dad took me hunting with him since I was a child, and I've done the same with my son," Boling said.

"You teach him not to point guns at people and not to be afraid of police, and then this happens.

"What we were doing was totally legal. I just don't understand."


Edited by rojoband (10/08/09 12:44 PM)

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#544400 - 10/08/09 12:53 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: rojoband]
Moravec Offline


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 1045
Loc: Snoqualmie WA/Cordova AK
Crazy! Please post any other news if you see it. I'd be interested to find out what other details lie behind this.
_________________________
God Bless America!
riptidefish.com

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#544406 - 10/08/09 01:02 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: Moravec]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13524
Hmmm, gotta' wonder about the "rest of the story." Tribal police have zero jurisdiction over non-tribal members off reservation for any purpose unless they are cross-deputized with city police, or a county sheriff's department, PERIOD. If the men who were detained are not members of the tribe, the action is illegal. The frustrating thing is that there most likely is no penalty to the Tribe for such an illegal act by its policemen. Maybe a civil case can be made against them, but those don't usually yield enough to cover the plaintiff's legal costs.

Sg

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#544409 - 10/08/09 01:07 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: Moravec]
Driftfishnw Offline
Steelhead Hitman

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 2026
This is really sad to hear.
I could understand if they had a joint jurisdiction with Jefferson County, and were following up on a poaching call, but this is not the case.
I sincerely hope they get to the bottom of this, so the father can explain to his child WHY this happened.
Please post any additional info.

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#544410 - 10/08/09 01:08 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: Moravec]
rojoband Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: moravec
Crazy! Please post any other news if you see it. I'd be interested to find out what other details lie behind this.


Here's another story about the incident (Click on this link):
Elk hunters acting legally held at gunpoint

This story has a slide show with great pictures and a slide show (Click this link for slideshow pictures) ....and you can see the hunter's with their poor kid by their side wondering what is going on.


Edited by rojoband (10/08/09 01:09 PM)

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#544415 - 10/08/09 01:21 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: rojoband]
Driftfishnw Offline
Steelhead Hitman

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 2026
The pictures do the report justice.

Thanks!

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#544417 - 10/08/09 01:26 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: rojoband]
snit Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 1844
Loc: Wenatchee, WA
WOW...just....WOW! I too would like to see how this shakes out.

Those pictures of the elk crack me up!!!! But the pic of the toddler...makes me sick (I sure hope everything was on the up-n-up for the hunters).
_________________________
..."the clock looked at me just like the devil in disguise"...

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#544435 - 10/08/09 01:54 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: snit]
FishBear Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 401
Loc: Western Washington
Musta been a fair hunt... looks like the elk were pinned right up against the water?
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You're welcome America!

George W. Bush

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#544439 - 10/08/09 02:01 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: snit]
STRIKE ZONE Offline
GOOD LUCK

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 12107
Loc: Hobart,Wa U.S.A
WOW.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

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#544440 - 10/08/09 02:03 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: FishBear]
fishhog Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 520
Loc: Whatcom
If the tribal "police" screwed up, then I hope the tribe gets sued, the "officers" get fired and sued civilally
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#544443 - 10/08/09 02:10 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: STRIKE ZONE]
huntncoug Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 1632
Loc: Echo Lake
I could probably even kill an elk on that hunt.
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#544445 - 10/08/09 02:12 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: FishBear]
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
Yup. I could see LE getting bent about it not being much of a hunt and 2 is a bit young but if legal it's legal.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#544449 - 10/08/09 02:15 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: stlhead]
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
It appears it really wasn't teaching the 2 year old much about hunting more like putting an animal down.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#544455 - 10/08/09 02:25 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: stlhead]
tyeeterror Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 612
Loc: The Humboldt Nation
Our local Hoopa Tribal Police are cross deputized by our Sheriff. They have police powers anywhere in Humboldt County. Not sure how it works up that way. If they are cross deputized then they were within their authority. Have to wait and see how this shakes out. You would think the Sheriff for that area would have spoken up if they cross deputized.
_________________________
these aint my pants

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#544456 - 10/08/09 02:26 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: tyeeterror]
Driftfishnw Offline
Steelhead Hitman

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 2026
From what the report states, they are not.

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#544474 - 10/08/09 03:30 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: Driftfishnw]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
When I was with Whatcom County Sheriff Dept we could detain tribal members from any tribe on the Lummi reservation, but no arrest powers. They had to be handed off to tribal police for arrest. We had full powers of arrest on non tribal people.

They had full powers of arrest on any tribal members on reservation, and could only stop and detain non-tribal people for a hand off to us. Off reservation, they could not do dick.

These guys seriously screwed up. I hope they are fired, the Tribe loses a suit and ends up paying these guys a mint. There is absolutely no excuse for an officer not knowing their jurisdiction, especially when it is only 1,340 acres.

Here's an interesting thought, maybe Todd could address. Officers of the law, or other US government representatives can be guilty of violating civil liberties, but since these guys represent a sovereign nation, what's the standing? These guys may not even be tribal members. I know tribal members would scream if their civil rights were violated.

At least they got the elk.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#544480 - 10/08/09 03:37 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: Driftfishnw]
Achewter Offline


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
Dam all this time I thought I was too out of shape to Elk hunt. I can see where they stepped over the line but probably could not believe what they saw was legal. As much as I hate the whole Rez treaty BS and think Its time has long passed after seeing the pics those cops weren't that out of line. A bit excessive maybe but knowing they were dealing with armed men that they thought were poaching I might cut them a break. The kid didn't learn anything good from anyone that day.
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When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it

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#544483 - 10/08/09 03:47 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: Achewter]
snit Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 1844
Loc: Wenatchee, WA
Originally Posted By: Achewter
Dam all this time I thought I was too out of shape to Elk hunt. I can see where they stepped over the line but probably could not believe what they saw was legal. As much as I hate the whole Rez treaty BS and think Its time has long passed after seeing the pics those cops weren't that out of line. A bit excessive maybe but knowing they were dealing with armed men that they thought were poaching I might cut them a break. The kid didn't learn anything good from anyone that day.


I disagree about the cops. "If" they have no jurisdiction regarding this specific location, then they had absolutely no reason to interfere with this "hunt". The tribal police should know their area of jurisdiction, and stay within it.

As to the ethics of the hunt....it was legal. Looks like they got a decent bull. Reminds me of fishing at the outfall of a hatchery. To each their own....
_________________________
..."the clock looked at me just like the devil in disguise"...

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#544484 - 10/08/09 03:56 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: Dogfish]
docspud Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: Silverdale Wa
I know Adam well and have for years. He is the type of kid you could count on if you ever broke down to come help you out anywhere/anytime. I know this story first hand as well. He was not even the hunter. He knew the guy that had the tag and the guy filled it legally on private land that they had premission to hunt. These joker came in with an AR-15 and handguns waving at them. It was a bunch of crap and there will likely be a legal case made for it. His boy never calmed down for hours after having some guy come in screaming at the top of his lungs waving a AR-15 around scaring the crap out of him. I hope these jacka$$es get just what they have coming to them.
And for those that are giving a bunch of crap about the hunt because where the elk where.....let me ask you, those guys scouted that herd for weeks prior. They got permission up and down the river. They found the elk after beating the brush for hours and hours looking for them in the last place they expected, down by the mouth. The bull they had been after and chasing/scouting for days was there. Now yes they are stuck by the river but what would any of you do. You already asked this land owner for permission just in case this happens. Do you let him walk after days of hunting him because it is not "sporty enough" of a spot. Give me a break. You put in the time, you found him, he is your bull.
No excuses for these officers and I hope Adam gets all he can out of them.
_________________________
Never leave a few fish for a lot of fish son.....you just might not find a lot of fish-----Theo

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#544488 - 10/08/09 04:06 PM Re: Do tribal police have a right to detain non-tribal [Re: stlhead]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
Originally Posted By: stlhead
It appears it really wasn't teaching the 2 year old much about hunting more like putting an animal down.


Some of the most teachable lessons happen after the animal is down.

You being a non-hunter it's easy to see how you wouldn't know what you're talking about. Par for your course.
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If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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