#564589 - 12/15/09 08:45 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: polepole]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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Are striped bass native or another eastcoast import along with shad?
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#564591 - 12/15/09 08:46 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: polepole]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
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So, now what remains to be worked on on the Sac and its tributaries
Water consumption Dams ????
I read about the chemical spill in 91 up high on the Sac.
Edited by Lead Bouncer (12/15/09 08:50 PM)
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#564603 - 12/15/09 09:03 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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Fry
Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 22
Loc: San Jose, CA
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So, now what remains to be worked on on the Sac and its tributaries
Water consumption Dams ????
I read about the chemical spill in 91 up high on the Sac. Water consumption is a big threat, and where this thread started out. Much of the water is getting pumped south to the central valley farms and SoCal homes. The Delta pumps kill a lot of fish and take a lot of the freshwater out of the system. The salt water is intruding and the delta is becoming more and more brackish. The ecosystem is out of whack. But you know what, as recently as 2002 the Sac had runs as large as 800,000. What has changed between that time and now ... more water exports and 2+ years of bad ocean conditions. -Allen
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#564608 - 12/15/09 09:21 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: polepole]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
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What about desalination plants?
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#564611 - 12/15/09 09:28 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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Fry
Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 22
Loc: San Jose, CA
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What about desalination plants? They are cost prohibitive. -Allen
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#564635 - 12/15/09 10:22 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: polepole]
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I'm not short, I'm 'fun size'
Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 1511
Loc: Mulletville
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What isnt cost prohibitive in California at the moment? Cant they just right another IOU? Something needs to change, and soon. California's thirst is going to cause the ocean and Sacramento fisheries to be a thing of the past. Salmon and stripers. Sport and commercial.
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Rusty Bell
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#564638 - 12/15/09 10:50 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: ]
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I'm not short, I'm 'fun size'
Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 1511
Loc: Mulletville
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Well said KK.
Freshwater may be publicly traded like oil is today.
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Rusty Bell
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#564647 - 12/15/09 11:05 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: sykofish]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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Some have gone as far as to speculate wars will be fought over water. In the case of water being extracted from the Delta, water dependent crops like rice and alfalfa can share part of the blame. One of the biggest problems is the aging irrigation canals, these inefficient conduits account to a huge amount of water, which is simply wasted.
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#564656 - 12/15/09 11:30 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: Illahee]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
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I dont know where they got the money, but Israel, has a desalination plant. They dont have any choice, but neither does California. Its going to be another public utility. Put down in front of Diane Feinsteins house or Resnicks house.
Edited by Lead Bouncer (12/15/09 11:31 PM)
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#564835 - 12/16/09 03:44 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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So what's the fix on the Sacramento, harvest reform, or habitat restoration?
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#564922 - 12/16/09 08:17 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: Salmo g.]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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So what your saying is unless you address the key habitat issues, harvest reform isn't going to do diddly squat to recover the stocks.
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#564935 - 12/16/09 09:07 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: polepole]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
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Some folks need to play their little game with every issue, in order to undermine or scold the organization, that doesnt take the same expensive, time consuming path, other organizations have worked on for decades. At the same time, the folks who always talk about habitat, have never reported on their own projects, or invited anyone of us, to chip in on a project. There are no restriction on volunteer efforts, its when the planning and money comes into the equation, things slow down.
If some of those folks had real involvement, they would know that most of the organizations scrape up enough resources and volunteers for one objective at a time. Every organization has to look at the results achieved, for the amount of time and money spent on a particular goal. Unfortunately, too many people expect these politicians to roll over for a 501C3 who cant pad their campaign coffers. For private enterprise on our side of the equation, its split between NSIA, ASA, NMTA and the rest of the Angler nonprofits. There is a limited amount of cash to go around. These organization will eventually work for same cause, and coordinate, but their history and structure are not going to be thrown to the curb.
Edited by Lead Bouncer (12/16/09 09:09 PM)
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#564942 - 12/16/09 09:20 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Some folks need to play their little game with every issue, in order to undermine or scold the organization, that doesnt take the same expensive, time consuming path, other organizations have worked on for decades. At the same time, the folks who always talk about habitat, have never reported on their own projects, or invited anyone of us, to chip in on a project. There are no restriction on volunteer efforts, its when the planning and money comes into the equation, things slow down.
If some of those folks had real involvement, they would know that most of the organizations scrape up enough resources and volunteers for one objective at a time. Every organization has to look at the results achieved, for the amount of time and money spent on a particular goal. Unfortunately, too many people expect these politicians to roll over for a 501C3 who cant pad their campaign coffers. For private enterprise on our side of the equation, its split between NSIA, ASA, NMTA and the rest of the Angler nonprofits. There is a limited amount of cash to go around. These organization will eventually work for same cause, and coordinate, but their history and structure are not going to be thrown to the curb.
Wow, looks like you spent some time writing this Novel LB.... Keep up the good work.... Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
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#564946 - 12/16/09 09:26 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
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Some folks need to play their little game with every issue, in order to undermine or scold the organization, that doesnt take the same expensive, time consuming path, other organizations have worked on for decades. At the same time, the folks who always talk about habitat, have never reported on their own projects, or invited anyone of us, to chip in on a project. There are no restriction on volunteer efforts, its when the planning and money comes into the equation, things slow down.
If some of those folks had real involvement, they would know that most of the organizations scrape up enough resources and volunteers for one objective at a time. Every organization has to look at the results achieved, for the amount of time and money spent on a particular goal. Unfortunately, too many people expect these politicians to roll over for a 501C3 who cant pad their campaign coffers. For private enterprise on our side of the equation, its split between NSIA, ASA, NMTA and the rest of the Angler nonprofits. There is a limited amount of cash to go around. These organization will eventually work for same cause, and coordinate, but their history and structure are not going to be thrown to the curb.
you should record this and have salmonbake humming the theme song for green acres in the background.
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#564960 - 12/16/09 10:16 PM
Re: "Science, Politics, and Salmon,"
[Re: polepole]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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Poor Ocean conditions are one thing but what you guys are dealing with is far beyond that and if it wasn't for one fiesty old judge we would be in the exact same shape. Redden probaly would have tossed the guy from NMFS in jail for what he did to the biop.
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