Apparently legal, but sounds more like culling instead of hunting....

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010618885_apwaelkhunt.html?syndication=rss

Not really my idea of a challenging hunt, unless you're Tiger in a Vegas bar

that is considered elk killing with a bow. elk hunting involoves tracking, stalking, or at least a lucky happening upon. surrounding them is not hunting. That has happened around here, and it gives us a bad name. it doesn't help that things like that make it into the seattle times.

Damage hunt, plain and simple.

Better than using a number of high powered rifles to cull the herd in an area with a lot of houses. The F'n WDFW sets up the hunts and then has a rep (enforcement officer) speak against it. That is the f'd up part of the hunt.

I'm not so sure I like the angle the reporter was taking. What the hell is a "high powered bow"? Clearly the language is aimed at the sympathy for the elk and the cry baby populus of his readers. Yes, bowhunting is gory to watch as the cause of death is pure bleeding and hemoraging not unlike a gun shot where the animal dies from bleeding and shock. The hunters clearly had permission to be on the farmers land and they did what any hunter would do and that is GET CLOSE TO THE ANIMALS SO YOU CAN SHOOT THEM. It may not fall into the definition of the one-on-one bowhunting that happens in the mountains but like Dogfish said its a damage hunt wher the object is to reduce the damage caused by the elk.

From my perspective as a hunter, there are a number of surprising concerns in the article--

To start, the way the hunt was "managed" by both the land owner and WDFW. Granted, the primary goal of hunting is to harvest an animal with the associated bloody outcome. However, the article cited running and panicked animals in a fenced pasture surrounded by hunters. This likely resulted in arrows flung at running animals. How many of the participants routinely practice on moving targets? Given the "high-powered bows," what about pass-through secondary hits on animals behind primary targets? Is an elk analogous to a paper target and not worth the effort to respectfully harvest it with a skilfully placed projectile? Were the arrows reported to be in some of the elk in their vitals, or some place that is not lethal? What about the "collateral damage" of the panicked elk injured jumping the fence with its entrails exposed? How many close calls were there of a broadhead narrowly missing a human in the cross-fire?

I've driven by this particular stretch of road and seen these elk and their various observers along the fence line. Rather than the resultant gang bang, what if the landowner allowed a maximum of one or two hunters on the property per day to pattern and set up for a shot on calm animals until the required cull was complete? Perhaps handicapped hunters using modern arms would have been more beneficial to all parties and humane to the elk, minimizing public scrutiny of shooting fish in a barrel?

As cited by others above, the language/slant of the article was not favorable toward all involved. Further, WDFW's comments on the record were disparaging to their own actions. Given the 20/20 hindsight of the matter, one has to wonder if there was any forethought in managing both the subject cull and the local valley herd.

All of the above does not appear to cast a favorable light on either WDFW or the hunting community. Just because it is legal to do so, doesn't necessarily mean it is a good thing to do, given the reported outcome....

I was once told that WDFW would never use Archery hunting for management. Does anyone know if modern firearm was an option and the hunters chose archery.

For a quick kill and massive transfer of energy at short range never underestimate a 12ga slug. Sounds bad but when an animal drops in its tracks in shock it is more humane.

I also believe a called in pissed off Bull elk with a Bow is the ultimate in hunting.
Just wish I could say I have done it.

If ya want to feel better about it one of those arrows may of saved the life of an unsuspecting human in a car.


Just sayin

You all saw the issues with the legal ML hunt up in Brinnon last fall. Lots of folks just don't like seeing animals killed, even humanely.

That said, there seem to lots of storing coming out of WA in my close to 40 years here that if you mix a herd of elk and hunters (and it has been Modern, ML, and Archery) that you get an ugly scene.

But, how are we going to manage these situations? Profesional hunters? I've seen that, too, on some deer and elk situations.

Although not specifically cited above, your point was not lost. It was just overshadowed by the other events and statements as reported. Perhaps WDFW and WSP could have stated it for the record as succinctly as you did.

Just sayin'....

Partially agree Andy however, this was not a residential area with many houses around. To me, the hunt is completely about respecting the animal. First, by putting in the time to locate and stalk and last but not least, killing the animal quickly, cleanly and without suffering. A high powered rifle would have been the ticket in this case at this location.

those dumbasses should be put in prison with "bubba" and his big "love arrow" all in a scared group prison style

REALLY the reporters name is Dick Clever?


It would figure if this DICK couldn't draw a bow it must be High-Powered.


Officer Allen may of been saying : This is not Hunting. We have to kill six of these elk today. While shaking his head knowing it wasn't going to be pretty and now I have some tree huggin tard reporter fallowing me around while I have to be here to watch this.

Anyone find it a bit odd the reporter was with officer Allen while it was happening.



Let me rephrase what this CLEVER DICK is trying to say here.
ALL HUNTERS SUCK!!! Last year it was made obvious that the ML hunters are all irresponsible, trespassing, shooting from the road PsOS so we can never trust them again and now we know that all archery hunters are bloodthirsty opportunist that just want to kill at all cost and have no respect for the beautiful animals. if I can make them look bad enough they wont even let the drunken slob modern firearm guys in here next year.

BULLSH!T

Maybe Just Maybe these were ethical hunters that payed for a Elk tag and a special draw permit and like 95% of the archery elk hunters in this state were not fortunate enough to get an ethical shot at an elk this past year. Did anyone notice in this article where it says archery hunters knowingly limit themselves to only archery elk hunts knowing that it is the least productive way to hunt yet the most sporting. Maybe these guys like to eat elk and know that they can also put in for damage control hunts that are put together when there is a special need to remove a particular group of animals that are a problem. Maybe they were told by the game dept to be in that field at that time the day before the hunt. I would not be a bit surprised if they were not asked to try to take the lead cow while watching the herd the day before with both the owner of the field and a rep from WDFW. A common process for a damage hunt. Maybe these guys weren't there to hunt Elk they were there to kill elk for the game Dept. Maybe I am full of crap or maybe the reporter new where this was going to happen the day before so he could be next to the game warden even before the first arrow flew.

I got a feeling this article was half written the night before it happened and this DICK was frothing at the mouth to write an anti hunting article as soon as he found out it was GOING to happen.

I fear someday soon enough weak minded people will be suckered in by writing like this that my grand kids will never know what it means to harvest an animal and meat just comes in wrapped up plastic packages.

I am not sayin Lukesfishin is weak minded

I'm just SAYIN

Don't fret. Next week the Times will have a feel good story on a heroic Native American hunter strugging to feed his poor family! They'll have a close up picture as a tear drips off his chin as he mourns the passing of his 12th elk of the year.

As one of the many hunters out there that endeavor to cleanly and quickly invite game animals home for the winter, I just get tired of the crap that passes for "journalism" in the public venue....

Punching an elk cleanly through both lungs with any suitable projectile (Barnes TTSX, .50 maxi-ball, Muzzy-tipped Carbon Express, etc.) and the resultant respectfully performed duty to clean, quarter or bone out, pack out, process and use same is not sensational, except perhaps, to the guy doing the work. It occurs countless times each season, with the usual statistical number of "Ah [censored]!" events that happen to good hunters as well. The coyotes and ravens are the usual beneficiaries of such matters. All of this is not written up by "journalists" that likely don't know the difference between a "high-powered bow" and a Mathews Genesis kid bow.

There is a journalistic responsibility here as well when Dick Clever becomes a defacto spokesman for the archery and hunting community at large in a public forum. From my perspective, such responsibility is one that should not be taken lightly, and executed in the same accurate manner as when I seek to harvest an animal. Anything less is a dishonor to all parties, the elk included....

achewter, thanks for not saying that about me,

but ya this guy prolly does hate all hunters period

i'm just not the type to "shoot fish in a barrell" like i said on the other topic about this, isnt it the "hunt" that is the fun part??

For you the "hunt" is the fun part, for others the fun part might be in the cutting and wrapping of the meat, or maybe making summer sausage, or maybe eating biscuits and elk sausage gravy is the most fun part (that does sound like a lot of fun right now). Maybe that easy form of hunting for them (damage shoot) is just a means to an end.

That is the beauty of hunting. It was first devised as a way to get food and we managed to make it a fun pursuit. There are a lot of us maybe not me or you, who believe that the fun factor is actually not as important as the meat factor. As long as you are legal, I don't care what your opinions on the "sport" are.

My opinion is that hunting is a lot of fun, and if I have any luck, a poor unsuspecting animal is going to suffer a violent and painful death because of me. I like fair chase, and being free from fences, and no-trespassing signs etc., and so I hunt in locations that allow that, but I don't ever deny the fact that I really, really want to kill something.

Killed many an elk in damage hunts. 7 to be exact. They eat just fine, and all but 2 came out whole. Part of those damage hunts is securing access to private land, months in advance, knowing where the elk will be, etc. Lots of work goes into some of these hunts years in advance and alll year long.

Is it the same as hiking 20 miles in a day, then spending 2 days packing out the animal? No. Does it fill a freezer? Yes. Is there work and preplanning involved? Most times, yes.

Damage hunts serve a purpose. If they don't suit you, don't put in for them.

What part of this is a "hunt"?

http://didia.smugmug.com/Pacific-Northwest/n-cascades/elk/10769726_xXySN#750685374_vLnWQ

I don't see ANY hunting going on. I do see "hunters" looking really bad though and getting alot of bad press while "hunting" (if thats what you want to call it). Nothing like giving the anti's more ammo. Just my $.02 worth.

they should have at least made sure the bow hunters could actualy shoot a bow, what a disgrace.

The hunt is where the elk are. The damage occurs where the elk are. Hence a damage hunt. You can tell it is a damage hunt because it is a specific elk area, not an entire GMU. There is no glory in a hunt like that, and the object of the hunt is to get the elk to move out of the area and cull their numbers. In that respect, the hunt appeared to be successful.

That hunt was exactly what the WDFW intended. A cull hunt of elk that caused damage.

My first two elk had broadheads in them, but I don't have a bad opinion of archers. Adding bows into the mix is a mistake, in my opinion, but you would have likely had wounded animals any time you have 5 or 6 hunters approaching a herd with any weapon. Wounded animals are an unfortunate part of hunting regardless of where you hunt and which weapon you use.

I took a cow with a 10 yard neck shot with my ML one year as a herd of 150 elk ran by me in a field. Drove the truck up to it, winched it into a trailer, and was done. The next year the yardage was maybe 25 yards, same result. Meat in the freezer.

Don't fall into the trap the media is sending. Cull hunts are necessary at times and I'd rather see the meat eaten than tossed into a landfill.

i`m not but there is still hunting ethic`s involved even in a hunt like this, there is no excuse for an elk to be walking around with 2 arrows stuck in it hind end, these moron so called hunters should quit hunting.

...and there are elk wounded in every day hunting situations.

Yeah, but its not everyday that mom, pop and jr. as well as local media get to watch elk turned into target practice along a major highway. Is that how you want hunters perceived? Not me.

WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE Print Version
NEWS RELEASE
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091 RSS Feeds

December 30, 2009
Contact: Margaret Ainscough, (360) 902-2408

WDFW Director Phil Anderson's statement on
archery elk hunt near Concrete, Skagit County

"I and others at the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) share the public’s concern over the archery elk hunt that took place December 26 near Concrete in Skagit County.

"The hunt was intended to control damage by moving elk off fields and encouraging them to return to forested areas. Property owners in the vicinity had complained that elk were trampling fields, knocking over fences, damaging orchards and vegetable crops, and creating traffic hazards on area roads.

"Unfortunately, the hunt was not carried out in a manner consistent with WDFW’s Hunter’s Code of Conduct, and we took immediate action to close the archery hunt in that area.

"The behavior that took place violated a number of the principles of the Hunter’s Code of Conduct that is published in the state’s hunting rules pamphlet and that is emphasized in all our hunter education courses. The code emphasizes the need for hunters to show respect for wildlife and to be considerate of non-hunters. In addition, it encourages hunters to behave responsibly and urges them to follow high ethical standards to ensure that the tradition of hunting can be passed on to future generations.

"The future of hunting in this state depends on hunters who behave appropriately, consistent with this recognized code of conduct. It is clear that the inappropriate behavior of a few can jeopardize hunting for the many who respect their sport and the tradition of hunting.

"Elk damage has been, and will continue to be, a problem in this area. I want to assure those who have expressed concern over this hunt that, in the future, WDFW wildlife managers will seek alternative ways to address elk damage in Skagit Valley."

the point is, we are the intruders not the elk, the wolfs, bears, cougars are supposed to take care of elks

i heard of a story on the o/p that the elk herd was gona be killed off in town, wtf, if there was no town we wouldnt have to kill them off,

freekin cry me a river cuz elk and deer were eatin your stupid ass apple trees and roses\

i get the fact that people gotta eat, i get the fact people gotta hunt to eat but this was leagal (not moral)

so whatever

Ya just aren't grasping it yet.

If you going to take an Elk with a Bow you can expect it to cover some ground after it's hit. These elk dropped close enough to where they were shot that a front loader was used to load them. I have seen Elk cover ridicules amounts of ground with solid just behind the leg chest shots from a 338 win mag.

It does not say any of the Elk that were hit were not recovered.

this was not a hunt although it was incorrectly titled one. The first mistake made.

There was a reporter there before it happened a game warden and a team of people assembled and waiting to drive the animals back across highway 20 AFTER the elk were put down and even a plan to close down the highway to do it.

no one with a clue could of expected these animals to drop in there tracks.
and the fact that one of these horrible so called hunters were able to get multiple arrows in a wounded elk says they were trying to do the job as humanely as they could.
I would of rather watched this happen than watch a wolf start eating one while it was still alive.

Why are we intruders. We are the only free ranging wild animals left on land and only guilty of being on the top of the food chain. The real world and what sometimes needs to be done isn't always pretty

I chose to be most offended by the reporter ...Art

Yea your not being trapped by the media because you cant read and absorb the information presented. Nowhere in the article did it say that there were "2 arrows stuck in it hind end" (whatever that means).

The actual quote reads like this: (now go slow and read it out loud) "A few of the animals had arrows embedded in their hides and were bleeding but were still upright and running."

Here is what you should have figured out if you know anything about bowhunitng:
1. The hide covers the entire animal. Supprisingly the hide even covers the vital areas.

2. Animals shot with a bow will usually run upright until they bleed, hemorage, and die. Supprisingly they run and bleed at the same time.


You need to read the article for what is written and not add anything to it. If you are an informed hunter with knowledge, then you can clearly see the angle of this article is written against hunting, hunters, and the WDFW. If you are not an informaed hunter with knowledge, then you are sucked into a false image created by your own imagination. Hell, you even imagined words that arent even in the article.

What do you imagine when the article says "The state game officer kept his binoculars trained on a tightly clustered group of about 70 elk in a pasture surrounded by several men armed with high-powered bows." I'm sure you are imagining Mel Gibson with a "high-powered bow" and the entire Brave Heart scene attacking the elk like they are a small group of baby seals that cant get away. 70 elk, even "tightly clustered" takes up quite a bit of space. How many hunters is included in "several"? Is it 6 or is it 600? There were only 6 elk killed so I think its closer to 6 hunters. There is no way 6 hunters could suround 70 elk the way it is being portrayed in this story.

That because it was on a major highway. Mom, pop, and jr are too fat, lazy, and uninformed to do any better. If its not near a road, their TV screen, or in an article written by Dick they wont even know it happens. You might think about changing your mind set here. If you want hunters to look good or be percieved good then you cant let Dick Clever wright sh!t like this. You need to express to mom, pop, and jr. that this was not wrong and this is a managed hunt with a very low success killing method. There must be more facts stated for people to absorb the true information.

My favorite part "One elk cow’s entrails were dropping from her belly, the result of a wound possibly inflicted when she didn’t quite clear a barbed wire fence, theorized Worth Allen, an officer with the La Conner unit of the state Department of Fish and Wildlife, who was at the scene." Best two words in that whole quote are "possibly" and "theorized". Neither statement is factual or confirmed, only speculation. For dummies, that statement is fact. For informed people that statement is read with a little uncertanty that it might not be true. How is it that there was not a cry for "extremely low fences" to be built so elk could clear them and not get injured. Sure nobody is blaming the farmers fence for being too high. Could it be that the elk was injured by an arrow? Could the elk have injured it self trying to get in the pasture before shooting light? Could the elk have not been injured at all and Dick is a moron and cant grasp the physical world and imagined intestines in his front row seat to HORROR (OOOOHHHH)?

One day you will understand that you are not seperate from this earth and are part of it. Until then go talk to the PETA hippies; their uniformed asses will except your statements and pat you on the back.

Gentlemen:
My original intent in posting this thread was to invite constructive discussion on the reported event, the reporter himself, and State agencies involved (WDFW & WSP). Thank you all for your participation. As a next step, and to hopefully give our online efforts some legs in the field, I'll give Ms. Ainscough at WDFW a call on Monday to provide her with a link to this thread. I'd like to inquire as to any post-event shifts in agency policy. Given the WDFW press release posted above, I am particularly interested in discussing what violations of the cited "Hunter Code of Ethics" occurred and how the WDFW didn't also create a situation that would likely result in such violations. The participating hunters seem to be the sole scapegoats, and the hunting community at large are at risk of losing the privilege of hunting in the subject press release. I will also likely contact Mr. Clever's editor and discuss the article as reported and perhaps also write a letter to same.

We generally seem to agree that damage control/cull hunts are a legitimate game management tool, and exercise our choice to participate or not. I'd just like to see more forethought by all parties in the matter when such a cull occurs alongside a State highway, and the attending newspaper reporter and State agents are content in taking liberty with the facts....

Good point. Why is WDFW trying to throw the hunters under the buss? Was this a huge organized plan by all hunters involved to hunt in this manner? Was this an accident where everbody shows up at the hole at the same time? I would also like to know exaclty which codes were broken and how many broke them.

Here is the story from a different source and this story says that there were up to a dozen men cornering the herd. This story needs a lot more details than what is present.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/80298137.html



Has anyone ever been out on opening day of any elk season and seen a lot more hunters, surround a lot more elk, in a lot bigger pasture?

Just to clear up a few things Dick Clever is the editor Someone else wrote most of the articles I happened to drive by when this was going on and I was shocked by the circus like atmosphere surrounding this hunt ! The Elk were penned like cattle with no where to go People slowing down to watch or stopping to watch Elk being moved with a loader , come on ,this hunt was a joke from start to finish By the way the reporter that wrote the articles for the local paper was not on scene

Thanks for the clarification, sodfarmer.

A loader, huh. Talk about full service.

Years ago, I had a Wyoming outfitter that was camped near me one season offer to pack out my elk for free. In my youth and exuberance, I declined. But that story will have to be told another day....

I will say this was a huge mistake and should not of happened. I am also very surprised that a dozen of the people with these tags would be able to coordinate being at the same place at the same time. Was it opened to anyone with a west side Archery tag or was it a special tag???

Sodfarmer Did you see the shooting???

Was all the info second hand to the writers of the articles.
Funny that they can write as though they were there and everything they write is so believable to so many people.

As ugly as this was I would rather it happens this way. (Preferably with no one watching ) than the animals killed on the road or worse just shot and buried.

sodfarmer,
Given the cited intent of the cull (damage control and mitigating elk/auto impacts), I'd also be interested in knowing if the WSP restricted traffic in some manner in the event of an elk fleeing from the pasture and crossing the highway. If memory serves correct, isn't the posted speed limit in that area 50 or 55 mph? An elk through a windshield at that speed or a rubber-necker rear-end accident would have been tragic....

I did not see any traffic control when I went by but it was a few minutes after most of the shooting What schocked me the most is that one elk had a couple of arrows in it and none were close to where they should be . I think the elk should have been herded out of the fenced area into the woods and then it would have been more fair to the elk.
Given the location and now the publicty, all this has done is given the hunter a black eye

And that is the most frustrating part about this situation. All hunters, for or against this hunt, take the black eye with a sucker punch. All hunters get a tarnished image no matter their hunting ethics.






BTW

Did the elk come back?

Check out the opinon page in the Skagit Valley Herald

The three comments at the bottom of this article are enough to boil blood.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091231/SPORTS/712319971/1008/SPORTS02