#569568 - 01/06/10 01:28 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: summerrun]
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The Golden Boy
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1483
Loc: wa/ak
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To maybe start an argument but all in good spirit: Is "bead" fishing really flyfishing just because it is on a flyrod?
Cheers Of corse beads are float and jig fishing.... I mean nymphing, I mean fly fishing Really, who cares, if you're happy catching more fish nymphing, cool! If you wana swing all day for a tug, cool too! Sam- yes, Thats how I swing anymore. just got 4 new spey & switch rods. Now all I need is it to be march and april and Im in business!!!!!!
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#569666 - 01/06/10 07:31 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: ColeyG]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Ferndale
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How about a slight modification/expansion to the original question. 1. Favorite pattern to fish. 2. Favorite pattern to tie. 3. Most effective pattern. With respect to the original question, I tend to mix things up based on factors other than river "size" and/or type. More often, water conditions, what I know about the water being fished (depth, speed, micro-features), and it's likelihood of holding fish. If I am working a piece of water rather than fishing on the go (gear or feathers) I typically start big and finish small while trying to achieve some sort of color/contrast change in the process. I like the way those intruder style flies look, along with anything incorporating some long and thick rabbit, rhea, peacock, or ostrich to get a lengthy, swimming profile. Action, action, action. If you think color matters, than it probably does. If you don't think it does, than it won't. Whether fishing with gear or feathers, if I am working a piece of water, I typically start big and finish small, start flashy and bold and finish natural. In the case of feathers, big meaning a 4-5 inch fly or 10-12 mil egg pattern. Small meaning a classic spey pattern or 8 mil egg. I am sad and glad to say, I haven't put in much time swinging flies for steelhead. In fact, I can count all of the steelhead I have hooked on the swing using three fingers. However, I nymph behind guys swinging flies for steelhead all of the time and usually out fish them 6 to 1 I have yet to witness the swing accounting for more fish than a dead drifted presentation. I am sure it has happened, perhaps with some regularity, but I haven't seen it. My vote for most effective would have to go to a 10 mil egg pattern in bubble gum pink. Looking at the picture, are you nymphing with a spey rod????
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#570141 - 01/07/10 09:51 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: summerrun]
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Ranger Danger
Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3076
Loc: AK
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I guess my real question is what defines flyfishing?
You do. And I do. We all do. Those many that have come before, and all of those that will come after. In any given pursuit, it seems like there are those that gravitate to and/or strive for a certain level of purity. What defines "pure" is often the subject of great debate and many unwinnable arguments stemming from opinions driven by great passion for the game, or, in some cases, a general proclivity for conflict On the flip side, there are others, perhaps the majority, that tend to dabble in and dwell more towards the surface level of knowledge and ability, while either not caring for, or not knowing much about things like style or the purists definition of this or that. Of course many lie somewhere in between. To me, pure fly fishing is fishing with a fly rod, fly line, and hand made fly constructed out of synthetic or natural materials. I realize that there are many levels beyond that, most with merit, but that is just about as far as I have time or care to take the issue both in personal value and in conversation. Most anything that you can fish with a gear rod you can fish with a fly rod and vice versa. Beyond enjoyment of the process and purity of the pursuit, I tent to focus on effectiveness. I can fish a bead or glo bug rig far more effectively with my center pin rod than I can the fly rod. In most instances, I can fish that same water far more effectively with a long float rod and bait casting rig and the same terminal tackle. Why choose one over the others. Only you can answer that. For me, depends on the day. I hate fishing the bead for the same reasons I dislike many forms of fishing. It's tedious, redundant and robot like, at times boring, it feels like a compromise, removes me from the best part of the strike, and, as KK likes to say, is the "fly fishing" equivalent of kissing your sister. That having been said, catching fish is fun, and so I do it. I just got a handful of rhea feathers in the mail a few days back. Been playing around with some ostrich, marabou, rabbit and rhea combinations and have been having fun so far. Good stuff guys.
_________________________
I am still not a cop. EZ Thread Yarn Balls "I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."
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#570144 - 01/07/10 09:53 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: OPfisher]
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Ranger Danger
Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3076
Loc: AK
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Now all I need is it to be march, april, SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER and Im in business!!!!!! Minor correction
_________________________
I am still not a cop. EZ Thread Yarn Balls "I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."
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#570440 - 01/08/10 05:38 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: ColeyG]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3336
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I guess my real question is what defines flyfishing?
You do. And I do. We all do. Those many that have come before, and all of those that will come after. In any given pursuit, it seems like there are those that gravitate to and/or strive for a certain level of purity. What defines "pure" is often the subject of great debate and many unwinnable arguments stemming from opinions driven by great passion for the game, or, in some cases, a general proclivity for conflict On the flip side, there are others, perhaps the majority, that tend to dabble in and dwell more towards the surface level of knowledge and ability, while either not caring for, or not knowing much about things like style or the purists definition of this or that. Of course many lie somewhere in between. To me, pure fly fishing is fishing with a fly rod, fly line, and hand made fly constructed out of synthetic or natural materials. I realize that there are many levels beyond that, most with merit, but that is just about as far as I have time or care to take the issue both in personal value and in conversation. Most anything that you can fish with a gear rod you can fish with a fly rod and vice versa. Beyond enjoyment of the process and purity of the pursuit, I tent to focus on effectiveness. I can fish a bead or glo bug rig far more effectively with my center pin rod than I can the fly rod. In most instances, I can fish that same water far more effectively with a long float rod and bait casting rig and the same terminal tackle. Why choose one over the others. Only you can answer that. For me, depends on the day. I hate fishing the bead for the same reasons I dislike many forms of fishing. It's tedious, redundant and robot like, at times boring, it feels like a compromise, removes me from the best part of the strike, and, as KK likes to say, is the "fly fishing" equivalent of kissing your sister. That having been said, catching fish is fun, and so I do it. I just got a handful of rhea feathers in the mail a few days back. Been playing around with some ostrich, marabou, rabbit and rhea combinations and have been having fun so far. Good stuff guys. My philosophy on these matters is very similar to yours in that I tend to factor effectiveness into my decisions on how and with what to fish. Granted, I have my own long, complicated list of preferences, but in the end, it would be dishonest for me to say I am so married to those preferences that I will accept a low probability of catching fish in favor of being able to use my favorite methods exclusively. As for purity, there are far too many definitions around "pure" fly fishing to allow any of them to be absolute. At one extreme, there is a contingent that believes fishing only needs to be done with a fly rod and fly line to be legitimately considered fly fishing. Personally, I feel this definition falls a bit short in that something called "Fly fishing" should involve something called a "fly," but my opinion doesn't make theirs any less valid. At the other extreme, there are those who will argue that the only true fly fishing is done with a floating line and a dry fly that "matches the hatch," fished on a dead drift. This basically describes the early British method, which most agree was not the original method. One school of thought (see Wikipedia) states that the origins of fly fishing lie in Macedonia, where an elite group of fishermen are said to have cast chunks of red wool and a couple of non-descript cock feathers tied to a hook into small streams, using a 6-foot rod and a 6-foot length of line. This "fly," by modern definitions, would be classified as an attractor pattern, and the concept of this being the original method of fly fishing seems to suggest that the most pure (if that is defined by originality) forms of fly fishing bear more similarity to fishing yarn flies and beads on a dead drift for steelhead, which is a relatively young practice, than the traditional British methods. Ultimately, I think being overly concerned with purity, however you define it, can severely limit one's ability to catch fish, especially when targeting fish like freshwater salmon and steelhead, who are much more concerned with staking their claim to a redd and a mate than a meal. I am convinced that steelhead (particularly summer runs, who spend a good deal more time in freshwater than winter runs or salmon) will eat, but a lot more of them probably bite as a response to a stimulus in a presentation that triggers an instinctive strike than in the name of eating. My favorite methods of fishing for steelhead involve swinging flies (wet or dry) through a fish's holding area, but I don't limit myself to those methods, for these reasons: - That type of fishing requires a very specific type of holding water that is more abundant in some streams than in others, but regardless does not represent the only water that will hold fish.
- Being primarily a bank angler, there is a definite limit to the amount of the aforementioned holding water that I can get to from a given public access point.
- I occasionally enjoy switching up methods to break the monotony of a slow day.
As for fishing with beads, yarn, jigs, etc., I am not above doing it, and in fact, I sometimes enjoy it. As much as I wish I could say that I catch most of my fish on elegant spey flies that I spent hours to tie, to do so would be to lie. I have caught more fish on a puff of yarn (with or without a bead), if I'm being honest, and I find it very challenging to consistently achieve the kind of dead drifts required to effectively fish such lures, so I don't think it makes me any less of a fly rod fisher guy in terms of skills than someone who swings exclusively. My bottom line is a common one in this thread - do what makes you happy, with no regard to what others think (as long as you aren't intentionally flossing/snagging fish). And if you're out there nymphing a piece of pocket water one day and a guy with a spey rod* walks by you with his nose in the air on his way to the one productive tailout within the accessible mile of the river, take comfort in these facts: - He is walking past a lot of good holding water that you will be able to fish.
- You are probably more of a "purist" than he is, if history is any indication.
* Note that I do not intend to classify spey fishermen as elitists. To do so would be far from the truth, and furthermore it would be to condemn myself, who also takes pleasure in the fine art of spey casting. I just needed someone to pick on to make my point.
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#570760 - 01/09/10 06:37 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: FleaFlickr02]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 1440
Loc: Wherever I can swing for wild ...
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Flies vary to the situation, the bigger question is what is your favorite line for a varying piece of water. The other important perspective to learn is how to fish your fly effectively on the swing. Lines and fishing your fly effectively is what is going to get you your grabs.
_________________________
Decisions and changes seldom occur by posting on Internet bulletin boards.
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#570942 - 01/10/10 05:52 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: Double Haul]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 147
Loc: Washington
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Well said Double Haul. You can have a fly box full of awesome patterns. If they are not presented effectively, hook ups will be at a minimum. Some fly patterns, just by the way they are designed, will give you a better presentation. For Winter Steelhead flies, a fly designed to sink and swing balanced and level will give you a much better presentation, than a fly that is not evenly balanced. An evenly balanced Winter Steelhead fly can be achieved numerous ways by tying with: 60 degree fly/jig hooks, Brass tubes, Buck tail wings and tails in conjunction with front barbell eyes and mid - weighting with metal beads, cones and lead. Something to think about if you tye your own. Presentation is everything.
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#572690 - 01/14/10 11:03 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: Salmo g.]
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Free Prostate Exams
Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 1544
Loc: Sequim
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A few comments, hope they are fun.
I am new to the list and new to steelhead fishing with flies, although I fly fished when I was a kid in the 60's and didn't know any better. All my gear got stolen, then I discovered girls and cars, and hey, it was the 60's. I do remember most of them, though. 8^)
I mostly mix jigs with bobbers, or drift in some variation. I have been tying my own jigs and have just recently taken a real honest class in tying flies. Very cool. First 8 weight here we come.
BrianL said: "Fly rods are used for all kinds of things. Bob uses one to soak eggs under the boat for Kasilof Silvers. Others toss mono on the reel and drift-fish with them. Some put on dink floats and fish 1/4oz jigs. You could probably herd cats with one too.
Comment: I am amazed at how gear and fly terminal presentations have converged over the last 30 years. I think it is actually good for fishermen as we continue to learn from each other. I probably won't try to heard cats with a fly rod, though. Hard enough with a drift rod.
BrianL also said: "I'm of the opinion that you use the best tool for the job. If I want to fish jigs, it's a gear rod (preferably a centerpin). Ditto for drift fishing. I don't enjoy casting big hunks of lead with a fly rod. Others can call it flyfishing if they want - I'm not going to waste time arguing."
Rick's comment: Works for me. I really like centerpinning, although it takes practice and works better for me in closer waters than far. Man, oh man, I love seeing that bobber drop, especially when I have been paying attention and have the slack out and the line mended and I don't go spastic.
And FleaFlickr02 said: "At the other extreme, there are those who will argue that the only true fly fishing is done with a floating line and a dry fly that "matches the hatch," fished on a dead drift. This basically describes the early British method, which most agree was not the original method."
Comment: In about 1978 I asked and paid a guy to tie up some flies that resembled eggs with a little lead wrap so I could put them on 2-4# mono line and drift them in some pockets in some small streams up on the West Slope Rainier. He told me when I picked them up, "These aren't real flies, you know. This isn't fly fishing." I whacked 'em and neither I or the fish knew the difference.
I think he must have been an even older than me old school "match the hatch" kinda guy. So now Glo bugs are de riguer and drifters use yarnies. Go figure. I love it all.
And then FleaFlickr02 said: "One school of thought (see Wikipedia) states that the origins of fly fishing lie in Macedonia, where an elite group of fishermen are said to have cast chunks of red wool and a couple of non-descript cock feathers tied to a hook into small streams, using a 6-foot rod and a 6-foot length of line. This "fly," by modern definitions, would be classified as an attractor pattern, and the concept of this being the original method of fly fishing seems to suggest that the most pure (if that is defined by originality) forms of fly fishing bear more similarity to fishing yarn flies and beads on a dead drift for steelhead, which is a relatively young practice, than the traditional British methods."
Rick adds: I am that Macedonian guy of the non elite version. Trying non conventional things is a major part of my fun in fishing. I used to look judgmentally at guys using rods missing eyes, and having mono on fly rods, and fly line on casting rods, and all kinds of goofy stuff, UNTIL I watched what they were doing and realized they were usually out-fishing me. They were usually local and knew what worked right there and then, and didn't know or care what they "should" be doing. I was the clueless one.
I am definitely going to try chunks of red wool and non descript cock feathers very soon.
Tight lines and good spirits, folks.
PS I hope Twitch posts some instructions soon for the "Twitchy Shrimp." what a beautiful piece of work.
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#573002 - 01/15/10 08:44 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: SkykomishSunrise]
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Fry
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 36
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1. What is the one fly you would carry with you for winter steelhead, if you could carry no others, in the following situations:
Answer: My own version of Silvey's tandem tube fly in either pink or purple. Same here in black
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#583650 - 02/23/10 10:06 PM
Re: Favorite Winter Steelhead Pattern
[Re: Doctor Rick]
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President- Oregon 20 Club
Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 771
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It doesn't matter if you swing it, nymph it, or stuff it in an engine....you can't stop the "Sparkplug" JD
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Cheese, Trees, and Ocean Breeze....
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