Anyone know where the 09-10 Sky forecast is sitting? Or is it a Snohomish River System collective count?

Yeah, that question was a little easier than the "ID this fish" stuff from this morning...

None. Not the Quillayute, Hoh, or Queets...the "healthy" rivers on the OP...none of 'em.

Fish on...

Todd

Bass turds.... dirty bass turds.

No forecast, as of yet...and might not be one. There were no counts done last year in the tribs due to bad weather and blown rivers, so they have no 08/09 numbers to plug into the models.

Fish on...

Todd

A buddy and myself rowed from Sultan down to Ben Howard last April just to count redds. Though I think the number was 17 or 19 redds, someone recently told me that there were very few officially counted. I'm no bio so would this sound somewhat typical. As I remember there where quite a few days last April with limited visibility in the lower river. (Lewis St. Bridge)

CC,

17 -19 might be typical of recent years, but that's way below the needed one-day count for that reach to be healthy.

Sg

And wasn't the green open for harvest of wild steelhead last year or the year before?

I think up untill nov 15th you could keep one native. The last 2 years I beleve it has been that way.
That is one native for the whole year on that river.

Hey Todd do you mind sharing what the escapements are vs actuall escapements on these rivers ???

......yet the nets will be in 5-6 days a week in the Queets.

Who's running the show here again?

Here they are...River, then escapment goal, then actual escapement for the 08/09 winter season...

Skagit 6000, 2502

Stillaguamish 950 Index Area Count, 120 Counted

Green 2020, 304

Puyallup 2000, 446

Quillayute 5900, 4733

Hoh 2400, 2256

Queets 4200, 4102

Humptulips 1600, 1223

Quinault TBD (I've heard as low as 600), 1200

Chehalis 8600, 6858

Fish on...

Todd

I have had good luck on the Green River of recent years and # of days with fish caught hatchery and native have INCREASED 4 fold in the last 5 years per time spent on the water. I have been fishing this system for the last 15 years keeping a journal of my results and I am kind of suprised as I felt the system was on the upswing and I and several others have had their best year for hatchery fish in the Green this year (which everyone says has been a "no show"). Kinda odd eh?

It really sucks that they have to just close it, no option for selective gear etc.

I also wonder how surveyors can accurately count escapement #'s when from March-May when the majority of the natives are spawning... the River is running 2000-3000+CFS and off color(cloudy green) from spring runoff. How does one such bio/volunteer get an accurate count in such conditions with off color and deep runs. Even in June when it opens again the flows can be quite high and desinguishing a redd in a tail out can be a challenge.

Though I'm not familiar with the counting technique used on the Green specifically, they typically count "index" stretches, or index tribs, and extrapolate out from those numbers to what the entire run size is.

Fish on...

Todd

All pathetic but those Green & Puyallup numbers are hideous. Anyone think extinction should start to be bantied about on some of these rivers?

I don't want to come across as an alarmist but those 2 rivers' numbers are gett'n in the ballpark.

Scary stuff.

What's even more scary, is that there's still active netting going on in those rivers.

Correct but if the river has no vis, again, how do you count that "index" stretch. I have participated on occasion in these counting activies and i feel they are LESS than scientific to put it nicely. Which is why I brought it up.

To give you an example last year during the prime counting time the flows on the green should have been subsiding and clearing, but they were high and off color all the way to june. I know this because my rafting buddy was checking the flow and hitting the river weekly until june.

Some of the index areas may be smaller tribs that are easier to count...

Like I said, I have no idea where they do the counting on the Green.

Fish on...

Todd

They could be, but for the upper section of the green, above Flaming Geyser, there are not really any tribs which could support a population. Any small trib in this area would not accurately represent what spawning activity is going on in the main stem of the river.

Main Index area on the Green is Whitney-Soos if I recall, there may be one in the upper river from Palmer to Headworks as well. Redds are counted via floaters and cross checked with aerial counts. Tribs are mainly Soos and Newaukum, both of which are severely underescaped and have been for years. Almost all natural steehead production occurs mainstem between Highway 18 and Howard Hanson.
You can trust that the wild steelhead #'s are tanking in this system, and most others in Puget Sound. Its not a conspiracy.
No scheduled steelhead directed tribal fishery this year, they pulled nets for the season the end of November with the culmination of the chum fishery.

Thanks for the info Todd.

Where can one gather this info on their own?


Its funny how they can make a goal that is much lower than historical numbers.

I would save alot of gas money if we even met the goals.