#619820 - 09/05/10 03:18 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: boater]
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Carcass
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
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Sports fish from Bouy10 to a deadline and seiners fish from deadline to Bonny to clean up. Leaving sports over full run of salmon for the most amount of time allowed possible with mortality issue in mind.
wow, nothing like throwing upriver sportsman out in the steet Bogey man theory Whose to say there wouldn't be a quota?
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The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein
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#619821 - 09/05/10 03:20 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Lucky Louie]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
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Sports fish from Bouy10 to a deadline and seiners fish from deadline to Bonny to clean up. Leaving sports over full run of salmon for the most amount of time allowed possible with mortality issue in mind.
wow, nothing like throwing upriver sportsman out in the steet Bogey man theory Whose to say there wouldn't be a quota? i rest my case. 
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#619822 - 09/05/10 03:25 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: boater]
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Carcass
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
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Are you really for hatchery funding cuts.?
for the sake of keeping it simple lets say the new selective commercial methods work to a tee and they are harvesting the hatchery fish down to the great hsrg guidelines, now lets say the hatchery funding is cut and they plant an amount of fish that when returning will meet the hsrg guidelines, either way the guidelines will be met, now, why should i care what they do since the outcome will be the same and i will be fishing over less fish fishing above the new commercial methods, the fishing will suck either way, maybe you could explain why i should give a [censored] either way ? Let your imagination run wild and come up with a better solution.
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The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein
No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them
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#619823 - 09/05/10 03:28 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Lucky Louie]
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Carcass
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
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Boater, ---thats a good start--- now for the real test.
WDFW already is testing selective commercial gear to reduce mortality rate = more fish off spawning beds.
So what is your proposal or plan of action to “use them or lose them”?
So far a handful of you are supporting cutting hatchery funding by just sitting there.
Are you really for hatchery funding cuts.? Boater, I think you missed this one.
Edited by Lucky Louie (09/05/10 03:35 PM)
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The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein
No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them
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#619824 - 09/05/10 03:31 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: boater]
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Carcass
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
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Sports fish from Bouy10 to a deadline and seiners fish from deadline to Bonny to clean up. Leaving sports over full run of salmon for the most amount of time allowed possible with mortality issue in mind.
wow, nothing like throwing upriver sportsman out in the steet Bogey man theory Whose to say there wouldn't be a quota? i rest my case. So what is your solution since they need to be caught under the fed guidelines to save funding?
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein
No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them
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#619827 - 09/05/10 03:41 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Lucky Louie]
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Carcass
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
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Boater, Sorry to bunch these questions together but I learned that from you guys also.  Besides I'm in a hurry to go out to a birthday party. Back tonight maybe.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein
No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them
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#619830 - 09/05/10 04:03 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: stlhdr1]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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270K? Do you have any idea how many smolt the Tribal hatcheries release every year? 270K is a very small fraction of the over all releases.
You seem transfixed with this notion that Tribal hatcheries don't clip their fish, and you have been shown the data, yet you persist with this agenda.
What part of mandated by the federal government don't you understand?
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#619835 - 09/05/10 04:28 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Illahee]
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Spawner
Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 506
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The ~271K unclipped fish from Nez Perce tribal hatchery were 2006 brood year released in 2007 as fry or fingerlings, likely part of a re-introduction program. It is routine that releases such as this are unclipped so as to avoid harvest when possible. Not clipping them is also consistent with the federal guidelines.
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#619837 - 09/05/10 04:55 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Lucky Louie]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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Yeah lets say 205 bridge to bonneville, tribes would love this idea..Even the Colvilles might say wait one cotton picken minute.. 
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#619839 - 09/05/10 05:15 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Lucky Louie]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
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Boater, Sorry to bunch these questions together but I learned that from you guys also. Besides I'm in a hurry to go out to a birthday party. Back tonight maybe. hey, the HSRG was supposed to do a white paper on harvest issues, have you seen it ??
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#619847 - 09/05/10 07:07 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Illahee]
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BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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270K? Do you have any idea how many smolt the Tribal hatcheries release every year? 270K is a very small fraction of the over all releases.
You seem transfixed with this notion that Tribal hatcheries don't clip their fish, and you have been shown the data, yet you persist with this agenda.
What part of mandated by the federal government don't you understand? I'm not saying all tribes don't clip their fish.... But when you have an estimated 2,393,947 unclipped smolt released in 2006 via upriver hatcheries at a 1% survival ratio thats just short of 24,000 bullshiat wild fish returning... But heck that 24,000 looks good on paper. The bullshiat wild fish.... Tell me again, why don't they count wild salmon at bonneville dam as they do wild and misclipped steelhead? Keith
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#619855 - 09/05/10 09:58 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: stlhdr1]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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Have you got any idea how many hatchery smolt are released in the CR basin?
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#619857 - 09/05/10 10:07 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Illahee]
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BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Have you got any idea how many hatchery smolt are released in the CR basin?
What's the relevance to your question.... Do you not get that misclipped fish are commonly refered to as "wild" fish.... It's a joke no matter how you cut it..... Yes, there are more than those hatcheries on the sheet I posted for the 2006 releases.... Don't you see it as a joke? All the idiots calling these cookie cutter wild spring chinook true wild fish... Sure is funny how you can wave a wand over there head and they tend to go "BEEEEEP"... Answer the question though, why don't they count wild vs hatchery chinook over Bonneville dam?Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
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#619869 - 09/05/10 11:07 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: stlhdr1]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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How do they count stocks on rivers with no dams?
Oh and the answer is,
2008
Total number released
LCR 31,470,470
Mid CR 20,863,263
Snake R. 26,907,748
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#619875 - 09/05/10 11:35 PM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Doctor Rick]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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Dr. Rick after 2003 the feds changed the rules and required all hatchery releases be ad clipped, this mandate was for state and Tribal hatcheries.
They used the withholding of federal funds as a lever for compliance, the only exceptions are for fish ear marked for re colonization and research purposes.
So to think that there are a bunch of unmarked hatchery fish in the CR is false.
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#619890 - 09/06/10 12:52 AM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Illahee]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
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2008
Total number released
LCR 31,470,470
Mid CR 20,863,263
Snake R. 26,907,748
it would be interesting to know how many are pre-smolts and how many are smolts since the survival rate of smolts is about 1 percent and pre-smolts is about 0.1 percent
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#619891 - 09/06/10 01:08 AM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: boater]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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The fish passage center is a wealth of real information on the CR smolt migrations. http://www.fpc.org/
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#619892 - 09/06/10 01:20 AM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: Illahee]
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BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Dr. Rick after 2003 the feds changed the rules and required all hatchery releases be ad clipped, this mandate was for state and Tribal hatcheries.
They used the withholding of federal funds as a lever for compliance, the only exceptions are for fish ear marked for re colonization and research purposes.
So to think that there are a bunch of unmarked hatchery fish in the CR is false. Feds obviously aren't regulating what you are saying. The fact is there are hatchery smolt purposely released to do exactly what Dr. Rick said.... Make it home for tribal harvest..... Don't ignore it... The same [censored] goes on in the NFL, I've talked to the hatchery managers themselves about it. They are going to guarantee they get their hatchery fish back beit with fins or not. When are they going to clip 100% of hatchery fish, for real?? 100% is 100%.... Keith
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It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
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#619893 - 09/06/10 01:30 AM
Re: Over Harvest vs Poor Ocean Conditions
[Re: stlhdr1]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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Brood stock years 2004 and 2005 Tribal spring chinook mark rate was @90%.
I suggest you take the time and call FPC and run some of your theories by them, you might be very surprised at what you'll learn.
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