I bought a 21 speed bicycle on sale for $55 to get to my fishing spots and have walked more than 5 miles from the closest bus stop to go fishing. So don't bitch to me about not feeling I need to waste 5X as much on a hook just for QC. Note I didn't say a better hook, I said better QC. I will use EC, Mustad, VMC and whatever other brand I need to buy to get what I want in the hook. I fish half as much as I would like to because I can't afford the gas to go. I don't have a vehicle to drive there anyway so I pettle my little arse or bum a ride. So bitch at someone else that gives a damn, I buy what I can AFFORD, not because I am cheap. IMO, Gami is an over priced hook that dulls in the first rock and straightens out unless you use 2 sizes larger than you would with other hooks for the same # test line. Not to mention I land a much higher ratio of fish than those I fish with that use Gami. If it wasn't for a friend that I was giving hooks to giving me a $20 I would be begging for hooks and collecting them off the river bank like I have done many times in the past.

I don't like Gami, never have. Bought them once, used them and didn't catch a thing after missing a dozen or so fish. Switched to my cheap Mustad hooks and got my fish. Don't need to spend $10 on 20 hooks to catch fish. Just like you don't need to spend $200+ on a rod or reel. I don't and won't spend more than $125 combined on my rod and reel so forget spending 5x as much on hooks that I don't need to catch fish.

QC is the issue, not a "good" hook. I will be ordering a bunch of Matzuo Octopus sickle hooks. Yes, I can bitch about their QC too but if their octopus hooks are anywhere near as good as their siwash hooks I may never buy another brand. Now that is a hook I can land a large fish on and use the size hook I need. Never have I seen a hook buried deeper in the roof of a fishes mouth, not Gami, Owner nor any other brand. I will buy EC, Mustad, VMC and Matzuo and throw away half the hooks because of their QC and still pay half as much per hook compared to Gami or Owner; and still hook and land a majority of the fish I set the hook on.

If you want to argue the merits of paying more, go to another thread. I will land and do land just as many fish as anyone else using my "cheap" hooks and I am not afraid to lose 20 of them in a day so I will fish where the fish are. But ask me on the river what hooks I use and I will make sure the other guy wastes a few extra dollars on Gami's and owners, unless I like the person of course.

EC, Mustad, VMC, Renegade and Danielson are GOOD hooks, their QC is all that lacks, at times, not their ability to hook and land fish. If you can't set the hook in a fishes mouth and land them using these hooks spend $50 on a pole with some back bone.

So you would rather have good QC on a shitty hook rather than poor QC on a good hook. Got it.

Owner cutting points, and matzuo sickles. As Todd says, buy more than 10 at a time and the price thing is fairly negligible.

I think it is pretty easy to tell a good hook from a bad one just by looking at it. The hooks construction (eye, bend, barb, point, finish) and appearance of the wire (grainy vs smooth, relastive thickness) give away a lot about how much tlc it was given in the design and build processes.

If you haven't noticed a difference between the more expensive hooks and the cheaper ones, you haven't spent enough time comparing them.

I've used a bunch of the Ultra Points. They're just as sharp as Gamakatsus IMO and they come in a fine wire version thats awesome for mooching herring.

The other thing I like is that you can actually smash the barb flat if required. It seems like the barbs on Gamakatsus break off,leaving half a barb,more often than they smash flat.

Great hooks IMO.

Yes I want good QC on all hooks I buy, just like you said, unless you meant otherwise. Sorry, not trying to be an arse. I want QC on all my hooks, period. But if i can't have it I will take best of the ones I can afford and go out and catch fish.

The last time I bought hooks I had a 1/250 defect rate buying them 500 to 1,000 at a time. This was on VMC, Mustad and EC. The batch I bought a couple days ago were far from the QC of the hooks that I bought 4 years ago. Thankfully I only have 50 of each.

As for price comparable in bulk, you show me where and I will buy Owner and Gami's. Even if Owner and Gami are within 50% of these prices I will buy them simply for the QC. No joke, no being a smart arse, seriously, show me and I will switch.
1000 Mustad 3/0 Octopus $79.05
1000 EC #1 Octopus Lazer sharp $59.50
1000 VMC 3/0 Octopus $72.68
1000 Matzuo 3/0 Octopus $79.05
Compared to 1000 Gamakatsu 3/0 Octopus $421.50, 5x times higher, from the same site for all of them.
Owner I can't say for certain but best I found was $527 per 1,000 3/0 octopus which is only 6.7x more but likely can find them cheaper from a bulk supplier so more likely close to the same price as Gami.

But to some I guess there is nothing I can say:
My pole is $42 so I can't catch as many fish as they can on your $350 pole even though I feel a 2 inch bull head sucking on the bait.
My reel was $43 so I can't catch as many fish as they can with their $200 reel even though it was $150 2 years ago.
I pay $10 for 1650 yards of line so I can't catch as many fish as they can with their $24 330 yard line even though I can land 30#+ fish on twelve pound test with it.

Oh well, I will pay my prices and still have fun catching fish that actualy cost less than buying them at the store. I will sacrifice having to go through and throw away 1:10 hooks for the pirce I pay. I just wanted to bitch about the fall in QC in as little as 4 years. Maybe my emails to the companies will make a difference, maybe not.

I will have to check out the light wire ones just for the barb size.

Nice thing about fish is that they don't care if you have an old yellow Eagle Claw rod or a fancy pants $800 spey rod

Don't forget about those Matzuo Octopus hooks, the little I've used them I was impressed with them....

Keith

I watched a brand new Gami jig get straightened out by a 2-salt hatchery brat on Friday. On a Snoopy Rod, none the less.

Sure makes me want to run out and buy those hooks and jigs!



I'm perfectly content to stick with Visions for most of what I do/use. Still have yet to lose a fish, by either breaking or bending out a Vision.

Why not share the Gami jig hook number, so other can stay away from that number?????????

Remember it is the "season to be helpful"......

Maybe Bob can find out, as I wasn't the one using the jig. I have no idea which jig it was.....other than who made it.

Matzuo Octopus Sickles on their way this next week. Hopefully they will stick some fresh steelies and not let go.

Anyone got a gap size, shank length comparison to other Octopus hooks? I normaly use 1/0 and 3/0 depending on how I am fishing, sometimes a 1 for cheaters if i am fishing low clear water and a really small birdy.

With a little bit of looking it seems like you can usually get the good hooks (1/0-3/0) for .18 to .20 a piece, as compared to .08 to .10 for the lesser models. Gami's for $200 & change for a 1000 pack, Owners a bit more, Matzuo a bit less. I guess that for the difference in quality and performance, I consider the cost difference negligible. Especially spread over a large quantity. Don't get me wrong, every dime still makes a difference to my limited budget as well.

Rods and reels are in a different category. It is hard argue from a "quality of experience" standpoint when talking hooks. Granted, landing more fish, generally speaking, would be considered a higher quality experience for most. But what rod is in your hand and how well your reel functions definitely plays a big part in how much I enjoy a day of fishing. Yes of course you can catch as many or more fish with lower end rods and reels. "Success" on that level is primarily a product of the fisherman, not the gear he is using. Most that fish higher end rods and reels do so because they enjoy fishing them more and because using nice equipment leads to a higher quality experience, not because they think they will hook and land more fish with expensive gear rather than cheap.

Well the best I can find is $0.37 each for 3/0 so you are doing better than I am finding them, retail anyway. Wherever you are finding them for $0.20 each please share.

One thing that always comes into play is confidence. I am confident with what I use. There are those have to pay for what they consider the best to be confident in what they use. I know a confident man that has taught me a lot that will outfish me with a rusty broken eye hook that he takes and sharpens on a river rock, and I have seen him do it. Talk about feeling like I'm wasting money of my cheap hooks.

Owner cutting points and Matzuo's...

Has anyone seen any QC issues with Gami, Owner or anythng I have mentioned? How about the ones I mentioned, EC, Mustad and Danielson? Is the quality control that much better or do you not look for it because it is an expensive hook?

Gami's, point dulling after pulling it off a rock or two?

VMC, corrosion and rusting problems especially after crimping the barb?

Mustad hooks losing their nickle coating after a year in the tackle box?

Any other thngs that would be QC issues and not neccesarily effect the quality of the hook out of the box?

Uh, nope. Needle points, needle points, needle points. The last thing I want is a widening hole, especially in a long battle with a pig of a fish. I'll take the smoother and quicker penetration of a strong, relatively fine-wired sticky-sharp any day over a chisel point.

Ditto on the Gami's...

Can't really think of a complaint on the Owners. Thinking back, I've had a few hooks of the 1000's I've bought that had issues of a dull point or offset not being right but very few though...

Keith

Gammie or Owner.Good luck,
SZ

Sickle for spinners.

Needle point +2, stick to the bone and through. Hopefully the Matzuo octopus sickles will do just that like the siwash do.

all my spinners get mustad or VMC siwashes. when they're hooked, they're hooked, and stay that way.

i used to use primarily gamakatsus, but the price seems to have exploded in the last couple years. 100 packs went from under $20 to over $30 now. i just can't swallow that when the brad's i've been buying have the exact same shape, and get sharper than any out of the package hook when i touch them up with a diamond file(5 seconds each when tying leaders isn't what i'd call a waste of time).