Hey HBP looks like I got your dander up and that's good. Gives me a chance to clarify
a bit. Of course it's a generalization that all powerbaiters are "NO BRAINERS" and also
that all litter our lakeshore. But the use of powerbait brings too many people with
no understanding of their quarry (or respect for it) to our lakes. The evil of power bait
is that these people cannot practice C&R, it's a kill operation. I see some baiters trying to
practice C&R powerbaiting and/or other bait and they are breaking the law and killing
most of the fish they release. Same holds true for treble hook lure fishermen.
If you had ever frequented a quality lake or Fly only lake you would see that the garbage level is less that10% of that on a powerbaiter lake. So generalization or not it's the powerbait lakes that
are badly trashed.
What's wrong with a catch and kill operation. #1 it's expensive, supporting it takes all the resources
of our F&G that could be going to habitat improvement,enforcement,access procurement rehabilitation,etc. growing trout to replant for next year.

#2 It's a relatively poor quality fishery for small non-sporting trout to eat. Yes you are correct the powerbaiters don't get them all in Jameson or many others. But the point is the occaslonal larger fish you speak of represents less that 2% of the fish in the lake,whereas one can have 20 to 40 fish days on lakes like Chopaka and Nunnally with all fish over 18" and up to #5-6.
I have caught some nice fish in Jameson too, but it sickens me to see the horde jerking our those 6-7" planters by the hundreds in the fall opene,r when the lake as a quality lake could be providing the same fishing as Chopaka....30 fish days with all over 18". There is NO comparison.

So HBP it's not stupidity or eliteism that makes me damn powerbait. It's knowledge of what our
limited recreational resources (the quality lakes like Jameson) could be producing vs. what they are producing in order to satisfy the powerbait crowd.

The bait thing is just not adaptable to running a quality lake. Eventually it should be banned. In Canada you don't hardly see it used at all.

It sounds like you fish quite a bit. I hope you some day understand what I'm saying and come to see the reality of what population pressure and overuse/overharvest is doing. I hope you see that if we want decent fishing for sporting sized trout we should be willing to give
up bait and barbed treble hook lures for it. And give up killing and frying our sport at least most of the time.

and you are moving to canada when?? i can hear the fly fishing elitists calling your name...

HBP, you made some very good points, i think you speak for most of us on this board.

If people are going to start siding. I'll go for FF. As I Like to fly fish also. I've kept one fish in about five years on fly fishing. The only reason I did is that my Granddaughter said "How come you never bring any home". So I kept one just to show her.
Just one old man. Jim S.

There is a time and a place for both types of fishing. I prefer to fish selective waters and rarely keep any, but when taking out a youngster or just plain cracker fishing, nothing gets then 'hooked' like catching a limit of trout to take home for dinner. Nothing wrong with that. Thats why they planted them there to begin with. Put and take fisheries are great for the local economy. Just imagine what opening day fishing does for the local sporting goods stores and many other businesses. Catch and release lakes/rivers are great resources too. I live on the middle fork of the snoqualmie and am very greatful that it is a c&r selective fishing river. At the same time, I like to take others to Pine lake in issaquah on for fishing for planted trout. We use powerbait, worms, flies, and various lures.

The issue here is that many of us question the resource management decisions that WDFW makes. I'm with you there. But they make many good decisinos as well.

Also, what are you talking about when you refer to folks being educated about what fish eat?? Most stockers on opening day have been in that particular water for only a few weeks if that. What do you think they've been eating for 99% of their life before they got dumped into that lake?? Powerbait is deadly on opening day and the weeks that follow because it does precisely what you're talking about - it provides them with a familar meal...

Don't think your better than others because of how they fish once in a while, or all the time. Just go have fun. Find a lake/river that is managed to your taste. If you don't like the way a lake is managed, talk to the WDFW.

FF, I fully understand what you are saying about what the resources could be, and I'm all for catching more and bigger trout. I do think there are more productive ways to have your message heard, than by calling all people that don't flyfish non-sporting. If the state was to ban all bait, and made all lakes selective fisheries, what percentage of people would quit fishing? How expensive would it be for the state then? So what if people want to limit out on 6-7" stockers, they bought their license and it says they are entitled to 5 fish per day and if that makes them happy so be it. I fish Canada every summer and the most popular method I've seen is pop geer and worms, how sporting is that? I don't like that approach but if they do who cares? I don't want to get in a pissing contest here, but when all you flyfishers out there start in on your way being the only way it does get me a little testy. Oops I did what you've done and lumped all you snobby, self-rightous elitists together. Oops I did it again.

Oh yea, we did get a little off track didn't we.

The original topic was on Tiger Trout.

Then it got to Powerbait users.

My thoughts... tiger trout like lemon twist powerbait.. as the swirls of color in the jar look a little like tiger stripes. I think tige trout would prefer that color.

Zen Powerbaiter...

and a PS. Lighten up a little guys.. I do tend to agree with Ron as I've fished the seep lakes for 20+ years and see how they get trashed up from the users. Most of those users are bank fishermen...

Actually everybody should clean up after themselves and treat their fishing spots like they would treat their own back yards. I meet very few people that let their yards get trashy.. maybe they should extend that thought process to where they fish.

I was over dog training yesterday at a PAY pheasant farm. I ended up with a small bag of empty shells that I picked up from walking the property. Every little bit helps to clean up spots.

again,

Zen Powerbaiter.... soon to be Zen Leecher again.

Some good points there by Phishphreak and HBP, but I stick to my guns on all I said really.
Powerbait is a "no brainer" and if that insults some, too bad. I've been known to enjoy fishing for
days without thinking much about what I am doing FOR or TO the sport in past years too.
MY point was the more you learn about your quarry and it's habits and envoronment, the less
likely you are to be a fishhog or a litterbug. Most people will agree with that goal ie. to reduce fishhogs and litterbugs. If I upset some....good!!! I use that methodology beacuse I've learned that saying nice stuff like "well maybe it's OK for you, but I don't like it" gets no results at all in terms of changing opinions. It would please me greatly to make it socially unacceptable to powerbait for all but children.

Back to the Sport issue, calling those who powerbait Not Sportsmen was perhaps a little harsh for the same reason. I'd like to change the frequency with which newcomers learn the sport by chucking powerbait and never give it up. Many of these folks fish a lot and that's great,but It means that unless they are breaking the law and catch and release powerbaiting they are killing large numbers of fish in order to enjoy the sport. And I know my comments about giving them to the neighbors and freezer burn are correct. These people are Not the same thinking Sportsmen I meet on the C&R lakes, who know the value of a large healthy trout for SPORT and protect that value.

As to our F&G they do a good job at throwing fish around everywhere,actually it amazes me how good. What they fail to do is read the demand of their constituency accurately vs. listening to the loudest.
I maintain my stance that about 1/2 of our best (richest in foodchain) lakes should be managed
on a 1 fish per day limit or C&R. The F&G Department should make it their job to hold teaching seminars for anglers who wish to learn to fly fish C&R in order to pracitce conservation.

I would have no qualms about powerbait use on the remaining catch and kill lakes. I just trashed it
because it is too prevalent and promotes lack of thoiught about what our sport could be and should be.
With too many anglers satisfied with jerking out a few small trout every year our F&G Department will continue to play to the whim of the vocal majority. I'd like to change that majority and the way most of our lakes are managed. That's all.

Fishnfella,

I like your idea on the class. How do you think that would best be set-up? Inside or outside?? I think that is great and with fishing season gearing up I would like to arrange something like this in Region 5.

I would have to find appropriate fly fishers to teach as I do not fly fish myself.

Please let me know your thoughts (and anyone else's!!) on how you would like to see a class like this set up.

stace

Stacie: I was just getting into flyfishnig when I lived in your area, but I believe
there is a small flyfishing club in Kelso and perhaps one in Vancouver too.
Contacts there should produce one or more willing flyfishers to teach such a class free.

It should be well advertised ahead of time and clearly stated as for beginners
and those with no experience wishing to learn. The foremat should be an inside
session on basic equipment & cost, fly types, chironomiding method and flies,
nymph dragging methods and basic nymph species & flies. This should be followed by
an outside session where the techniques are demonstrated on some eager
trout to perk enthusiasm.

Good luck on making this idea a reality. It's a good way to start.

I'm looking at this topic and wonder where do I jump in??????? All I can say is that when Washington Lakes.com did the clean up last year at lil cavaunaugh<sp? only one baiter showed up and that was Mike ,The rest of us were Fly Fisherman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I agree with Ron about the quality lakes being cleaner. Baiters have there lakes and I wish they would stay at there lakes. When over at the ****** lake on the 1st ,I chased off some baiters fishing the lake. There response was "I was told there are alot of perch in here". Well now come the part of being responsible WHICH these people were not. Fly fishers take the time to scope out the lakes and tend to know the regulations. Fly fishers are NOT elitist but they are more caring for the waters they fish. My 2 $#@*&^% cents worth! Oh Yeah Fishing fella are you running for the state senate???? I'll vote for ya if you were in my district!!!!!!!!

Hey! Just to clarify - OK, I have been known to put power bait on my kids hooks on Opening Day on Pine lake - but that's it. Otherwise I'm a hardware guy (OK, maybe a maggot on the hook also, or piece of worm). Now, I will admit that dragging hardware does not reach the lofty ideals of flyfishing, but it satisfies the lazy side of me. And that side must be satisfied... (End Editorial comment) :p

Naw, Troutmaster I dislike politics, but appreciate your feelings that currently we need more politicians with a sportsmans background and willing to stand up for good management of
our fish and game resources. By that I DON"T mean commercial harvest of salmon for a couple bucks that could generate $100 in sportsman spending. Now that said if ya want to slip me a couple million bucks, I'll run for Gov. next term.
In the meantime it's snowing like hell here and I'm bored and can't fish, so I hopped on the
stump and preached a little conservation, C&R, and anti powerbait rehetoric. Peed off a couple baiters including the Zen but that's OK I got broad shoulders. Hope some people start thinking rather than just fishin cause of my loud mouth.

I was going to submit a answer to these posts. But the longer I sat here reading the dumber I got and forgot what I was going to say.
Well it's not snowing here,but it's raining,so what else it new.
I guess I'd better go as my mind is blank. Jim S. :p