Sorry... no debunk. Politics is politics.

From the "advocate" mouth...

Today's Peninsula Daily news quotes... "Becca Yucha of Port Angeles -- the lone North Olympic Peninsula resident to speak at Friday's meeting -- said, "I'm just so glad I get to go back to people and tell them, 'We won.'"

Yucha helped solicit 624 signatures on a petition asking the state to keep Sutherland open.

"This is exactly how it should work. [Fish and Wildlife] had a proposal, the public didn't like that, they spoke up, they were listened to, and the agency compromised."



Clearly this is a political issue, not a fish resource issue.

Based upon the information provided to the Commission by Staff and the public exactly why do you feel that the decision is inappropriate? Continuing to call it a "Cave In" and a political decision without addressing the specifics supporting your thoughts is weak.

Again, it certainly is "political" to be able to engage the decision makers but I believe that the ultimate outcome of these decisions are far less political in nature and more resource oriented than under the old methodology trying to be new again.

they are not trying to actively restore the summer run steelhead population either, but they will shut down all upriver rainbow trout fisheries for the five year moratorium (if not longer). this closure will have negative economic impacts on fishing related businesses in the local area just like lake sutherland (maybe more, with a larger number of out of area people traveling to the upper elwah specifically for the rainbow trout fishery).

most dam removal advocates are upset by the hatchery influence in the elwha dam removal project. to use one of the few species not subject to intensive hatchery production as a reason to not close down lake sutherland is silly.



there are no plans because they do not know yet if there is a blockage problem. should they remove the dams (and resulting rearing habitat) before they know if they need to?



so there was or wasn't a few? also redfish lake sockeye have to deal with a lot more than lake sutherland sockeye will (namely dams and a much longer migration). plus the few sockeye in the lower elwha already prove that the kokanee are contributing anadramous adults.



hardly debunks a political cave in by wdfw. it is totally a cave in. every other fishery in the watershed is shut down... but pressure to exclude the only lake capable of sockeye production by landowners worked.

the supporters of the cave in by the commission even admit it. to me, compromise will not help restore the elwha or other stocks throughout the state.

hopefully the tribe doesn't use this as an excuse to not implement the fishing moratorium on their end.

i sure would like to keep fishing the wilderness rainbows on the elwha but i decided to temper my selfish desires and give something up for the good of the dam removal project and the elwha river restoration.

100% political cave in by the commission

If the science supports a fishery, then there should be one. If it doesn't then it should be closed. The decisions are made, for now. Eventualy, hopefully, they will have their science and will be able to determine if Lake Sutherland and it;s dam need to come out or not.

If they remove the lower beaver dams and they see even a minor number of Sockeye getting to the dam be ready for things to happen without any chance of any input from anyone.

I believe I was trying to recite the information provided during the Commission meeting rather than being an advocate for one position over another. I was being purposely vague about whether Commissioner Mehnken said there actually were any kokanee that augmented the Redfish Lake population because I frankly don't recall his exact words. It was clear to me that his position was that the recovery was due to the adults that were captured. But if you are really interested the audio should be available soon.

As to the question of whether sockeye could migrate past the existing dams was certainly put into doubt when Staff said they were sure that silvers could get past the dams. They were unwilling to make a positive response for sockeye. My thought at the time was that earlier returning fish would have lower water flows than later returning fish (silvers).

My point in reciting this is to show that there were numerous factors considered prior to the vote and not just a "Cave In."

Thanks Becca for all your hard work in helping keep Sutherland open. Victory sures smell sweet.

To all those who wanted it closed (as long as your our home waters stay open) I say......

well, the tribe has stated they will not fish during the five year moratorium, so i am going to take them at their word until they change.

there are other fisheries in the elwha watershed that could remain open with minimal impact on restoration. the fact is that now we sport anglers are the only ones not 100% behind the five year moratorium. you may be certain fishing will take place, but up until now there was agreement between all parties to have all fishing shut down for five years during dam removal.

bad decision based on political pressure, pure and simple.

Politics has had a heavy hand in whole Elwha process. I support the dam removals and I'll be following the recovery process closely. The closure of Lake Sutherland was apparently in the works for some time, but the public acknowledgement of the proposal was really late in coming out.

If you'll check the proposed regulations, the lake will be open April to October with a slot limit for the take of all salmonids of fish that range between 6" to 16". Additionally, Indian Creek, the outlet for the lake and the rest of the Elwha River basin are going to be closed to the take of all salmonids for 5 years so there shouldn't be any pressure on out migrants. If Lake Sutherland kokanee are indeed out-migrating then, when the dams are reduced to a level where there is a chance for fish passage upstream, we might see sockeye in Indian Creek and moving into Lake Sutherland. With the slot limit, 16" maximum, and the season structure, I'd hazard to guess that there won't be much pressure on any returning adult sockeye. If sockeye don't show up.....another plan might be implemented. We'll have to look at the science and see if alternatives might be explored.

I think this is a good decision.

Larry B said, "My observation is that those folks with a direct interest wanted on open process where all of the facts pertaining to possible recolonization by sockeye could be examined. Their "political pressure" achieved that goal. I do not believe their "political pressure" resulted in the final decision to allow a continued fishery with a slot limit."
~Our goals were presented in exactly this way, publicly, for everyone to see. All we wanted was a decision based on sound science. And that's what we got.

fish_4_all said, "If the science supports a fishery, then there should be one. If it doesn't then it should be closed. The decisions are made, for now. Eventualy, hopefully, they will have their science and will be able to determine if Lake Sutherland and it's dam need to come out or not. If they remove the lower beaver dams and they see even a minor number of Sockeye getting to the dam be ready for things to happen without any chance of any input from anyone."
~This is an accurate assessment, and I would absolutely support a full closure if the science supports that in the future.

topwater said, "plus the few sockeye in the lower elwha already prove that the kokanee are contributing anadramous adults."
~When I read similar statements in this thread a few weeks ago, I contacted the NOAA geneticist who is doing this testing (he's listed on page 131 of the Elwha River Fish Restoration Plan published by NOAA in 2008) and asked him if the "gossip" was true. His response was:

Dear Ms. Yucha;
Thank you for your interest in O. nerka (sockeye salmon and kokanee) in the Elwha River watershed. We received tissues from four fish sampled in the Elwha River in 2010 that were identified as adult sockeye salmon. We are in the process of analyzing the DNA characteristics of these fish to estimate their probable origin. We are comparing information from these individual fish to available O. nerka collections including Lake Sutherland kokanee. We have three years of kokanee data from Lake Sutherland. Results from the genetic analyses mentioned in regional “forum” discussions were premature. When completed, our results will be available through the Northwest Fisheries Science Center.

Again, thank you for your interest.

Gary Winans
population geneticist

Had I received a different answer, my actions would have been different and BASED ON SCIENCE there would have been an entirely different outcome. Fortunately, I don't blindly believe everything I read online.

FishBear said, "Clearly this is a political issue, not a fish resource issue."
~These days our fish resource issues are a complicated combination of both science and politics. Had the science supported a full closure of the lake, no amount of political pressure would have changed that. I do believe that we have a right as constituents of WDFW to question the processes and science that go into making resource management decisions. The resources they are managing belong to all of us. These decisions aren't transparent at all, and a little window into the process is all we were requesting from WDFW.

~ Final comments: None of you contacted me to ask what my process or reasoning was for pursuing this issue, and yet a number of you are eager to jump on the criticism train and make assumptions about the entire process. I can assure you that I didn't take any of this lightly and I'm disappointed that no one had the courtesy to contact me directly to discuss it. It's unfortunate to me that we're all so busy fighting with each other and refusing to compromise or cooperate that we're completely ineffectual as a group. It's no wonder we're losing everything.

Becca Yucha

This is not correct. According to the WDFW Elwha River Fishing Curtailment Summary "LEKT and ONP have reached agreement at the policy level to impose the full fishing moratorium in-river for a period of five years" and "further discussions between the Lower Elwha Tribe, Olympic National Park and WDFW have attempted to define the extent to which fisheries would be curtailed." Additionally, the 2008 Elwha River Fish Restoration Plan states, "In order to encourage recovery, it may be necessary to curtail recreational fisheries in Lake Sutherland." I don't believe that, until now, a decision had been made by WDFW regarding the waters under their jurisdiction.

BTW, this same document also states, "Sockeye salmon in the Elwha River are extinct."

I would encourage you to read through the Sockeye Salmon Proposed Restoration Approach section (page 81) if you haven't already. This document together with Status of Kokanee Salmon in the Lake Sutherland Basin and Prospects for Sockeye Salmon Restoration provided some of the scientific basis for the Commission's decision.

there are other stocks in the elwha at or near extinction. there are almost no pinks or summer steelhead in the lower 5 miles... and yet we're still going to close the lower river and the upriver rainbow fisheries.

you must be proud now that sportfishermen are the ONLY user group fishing in the elwha watershed during the moratorium. the door is opened now for other groups (tribes) to break the moratorium. kudos! times like these i know why the fish are in trouble. no one is willing to make any sacrifice for the fish.

lake sutherland anglers = "me, me, me"



read it and we just have a serious difference of opinion and see different things from the same document. i see a document that states lake sutherland can support a sockeye population.

the problem is that you require scientific certainty for decision making, and i was willing to give fish a five year chance.

and if you think that lake sutherland fishermen were the only ones being asked to sacrifice, that's a load of crap. the upriver wild trout fishery is arguably the best resident trout fishery on the west side of the cascades and will be shut down for 5 years. the type of fishermen that enjoy that fishery are less selfish and care more about the restoration than lake sutherland fishermen.... you've just proved that.

February 7, 2011

Contact: Susan Galloway, (360) 902-2267 or
WDFW Fish Program, (360) 902-2700

Commission approves new fishing seasons
for Lake Sutherland game fish, Puget Sound crab

OLYMPIA - The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission approved fishing closures in the Elwha River Basin linked to the impending removal of two major dams and adopted new Puget Sound crab-fishing seasons for 2011 during a meeting here Feb. 4-5.

The commission, which sets policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), also approved new restrictions on recreational and commercial fisheries in the western Strait of Juan de Fuca to protect bottomfish.

The Elwha fishing moratorium, set to begin in March of 2012, is designed to protect native salmon and trout during demolition of the Elwha and Glines Canyon dams and encourage their expansion into 70 miles of new spawning and rearing habitat.

The fishing moratorium, which will remain in effect until further notice, was previously endorsed by the National Park Service and the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe for the fisheries they manage in the watershed.

The commission’s action will not, however, close all fishing in Lake Sutherland, which is linked to the Elwha River by Indian Creek. Fishery managers had previously proposed closing fishing in the lake, currently open year-round, as part of a strategy to rebuild salmon runs in the watershed.

"The public made a strong case that we should allow fishing in Lake Sutherland at least part of the year," said Miranda Wecker, commission chair. "We agreed on an approach that will support salmon recovery without closing fishing year-round."

Effective May 1 of this year, only kokanee and trout measuring 6-18 inches can be retained at Lake Sutherland, which will close for the year Nov. 1, 2011. Starting next year, the new rules adopted by the commission also will limit fishing for kokanee and other game fish in Lake Sutherland from the third Saturday in April through the end of October.