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#672773 - 03/27/11 11:34 AM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Doctor Rick]
SBD Offline
clown flocker

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3731
Loc: Water
Personally I don't think mixed stock selective fishing works on a large or medium scale, but it is a very good tool to keep a large number of people with a rather low understanding of the issues occupied instead of focusing on expense fixes. That would explain why groups like the CCA are constantly pushing it and somehow always seem to be absent at any of the key meetings involving land use and hydro issues. As how to repair the issues between the groups that want to catch a fish and those that want to buy one.. Seems to me putting the more efficient method behind the play one would make more sense but that would involve removing previously passed laws that were designed to give each group their own area to fish with no contension..Worked well for a short time time I would imagine.
_________________________


There's a sucker born every minute



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#672783 - 03/27/11 12:20 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Doctor Rick]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Originally Posted By: Doctor Rick
Boater,
This is a really good question and I have to think about it to give my best answer. But it will involve using total hatchery fish catch rather than ESA impact alone so recreationals don't get shorted, and commercials still catch fish, along with moving towards terminal fisheries and some sort of lower river selective catch. And, my best wish, that the natives survive, and that we survive as well.

I see this whole thing more and more as a series of stepping stones and not one great final solution.

And if there is a question as to whether ESA impact measures can be altered, the answer is YES. I was alive during the original ESA legislation and think we have the cahones to enact change, as citizens now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cojones


First off Boater has no boat!

Second he copies and pastes diatribe from every dissenting direction and has nothing constructive to add, he just stands on the sidelines and throws stones at those in the trenches.He has not come up with one original idea himself and seems to be paid to sit here day in and day out being nonconstructive, unoriginal and miasma in his approach to discourage anyone one else from forming their own opinion, or doing anything but the old standard that has put us in this position.

Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




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#672804 - 03/27/11 01:53 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: SBD]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: SBD
Personally I don't think mixed stock selective fishing works on a large or medium scale, but it is a very good tool to keep a large number of people with a rather low understanding of the issues occupied instead of focusing on expense fixes. That would explain why groups like the CCA are constantly pushing it and somehow always seem to be absent at any of the key meetings involving land use and hydro issues.



If you are in attendence, its not a key meeting. Its called a public meeting and in most cases, its not where the decisions are made. Its amusing that you want cca to dive into the hydro fight and the way you do it is to denounce them, turn others against membership and thus the amount of volunteers who will do the bulk of the work. Perhaps you can name a non profit that is involved in every single issue that affects salmon? Can't please everybody.... People forget your background is commercial fishing and I cant remember a post where you came out against gillnetting.

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#672807 - 03/27/11 02:02 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Fast and Furious]
SBD Offline
clown flocker

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3731
Loc: Water
My background is fish LB, been doing it all since I was 4, and I'll bet if you replace a gillnet with a fishwheel things won't change..
_________________________


There's a sucker born every minute



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#672812 - 03/27/11 02:43 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: SBD]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
If your example is generic to harvest reform, it depends on your expectations. Its a harvest issue and will only affect recovery to that extent. If its adopted statewide then some rivers will benefit more than others. Its not the fix-all that the opponents want to portray it.

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#672818 - 03/27/11 03:04 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1597
Loc: common sense ave.
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf


First off Boater has no boat!



thats the only truth in that giant pile of rubbish that you just posted

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#672832 - 03/27/11 05:38 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: boater]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Originally Posted By: boater
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf


First off Boater has no boat!



thats the only truth in that giant pile of rubbish that you just posted


You mean its the first lie of many that you espouse!

UN-Boater



Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




Top
#672863 - 03/27/11 09:33 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
billjr64 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 141
Loc: SW WA.
Someone needs to be the voice of dissent, if we all fall into line like good sheeple, whoever has the agenda gets their way, no questions asked, that`s not the way it works in this country, thank god. Your attacks on Boater validate this point. Gillnetting is a dying industry, LET IT DIE. In the meantime there are the safe areas. Bill

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#672877 - 03/27/11 10:31 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: billjr64]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Originally Posted By: billjr64
Someone needs to be the voice of dissent, if we all fall into line like good sheeple, whoever has the agenda gets their way, no questions asked, that`s not the way it works in this country, thank god. Your attacks on Boater validate this point. Gillnetting is a dying industry, LET IT DIE. In the meantime there are the safe areas. Bill


I understand Bill and agree with some of what you say, but you must realize that my history with boater goes a long way back, with him being the aggressor and creating a friction that has preempted any real discussion. So what your seeing is the result of many diatribes against me and the culmination of my not going to take his gill net protection dance anymore!

Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




Top
#672887 - 03/27/11 11:53 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1597
Loc: common sense ave.
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf


So what your seeing is the result of many diatribes against me and the culmination of my not going to take his gill net protection dance anymore!



gillnet protection dance ?, ive thought for years that they should be taken off the river and give all the esa take to sports so we can have full seasons, you rolleyes on the other hand want them to change to gear with a low release mortality rate so they can catch more fish, also, do you ever read and talk to people in the know about whats going on ?

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#672890 - 03/28/11 12:06 AM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: SBD]
Doctor Rick Offline
Free Prostate Exams

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 1544
Loc: Sequim
Originally Posted By: SBD
Personally I don't think mixed stock selective fishing works on a large or medium scale, but it is a very good tool to keep a large number of people with a rather low understanding of the issues occupied instead of focusing on expense fixes. That would explain why groups like the CCA are constantly pushing it and somehow always seem to be absent at any of the key meetings involving land use and hydro issues. As how to repair the issues between the groups that want to catch a fish and those that want to buy one.. Seems to me putting the more efficient method behind the play one would make more sense but that would involve removing previously passed laws that were designed to give each group their own area to fish with no contension..Worked well for a short time time I would imagine.


I think land use and hydro are huge issues, and selective fishing is a big issue as well. CCA has chosen to work the selective fishery side, and there is a lot of room for groups and individuals to work the land use and hydro sides as well. Lots of pieces in the puzzle.
I have recently, as shown from other threads, been really thinking about the habitat and upstream biomass (land use) side of things. These all relate and I give a big "Way to Go!" to anyone working in any of these areas to benefit fish and fishing. If we all just pick a place to start and get to work, it is a good thing.

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#672896 - 03/28/11 12:32 AM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: boater]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
(ive thought for years)

And just what have you done constructively to change the status quo in all those years?


Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




Top
#672898 - 03/28/11 12:51 AM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Doctor Rick]
SBD Offline
clown flocker

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3731
Loc: Water
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Radiation-...set=&ccode=


Might be selective fishing with a Geiger Counter before its all over. Yeah this one's not making any funny noises it's a keeper.
_________________________


There's a sucker born every minute



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#672959 - 03/28/11 12:07 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1597
Loc: common sense ave.
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf


And just what have you done constructively to change the status quo in all those years?



advocated for common sense in fisheries managment and your a clear example of where ive failed

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#672962 - 03/28/11 12:12 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: boater]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: boater
Originally Posted By: Somethingsmellsf


And just what have you done constructively to change the status quo in all those years?



advocated for common sense in fisheries managment and your a clear example of where ive failed


rofl rofl

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#672987 - 03/28/11 02:38 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: Doctor Rick]
OntheColumbia Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 247
Loc: Columbia Co. Oregon
Originally Posted By: Doctor Rick
....If, BIG IF, ESA impacts could be changed and if, .....

Not sure why I keep stepping in but we have to figure this out or leave to the nextgen.


Dr.Rick, I don't see any changes to the 2% allowable ESA impact on upriver spring chinook, that sports and gillnetters share, happening under any reality-based scenario.

It's a lot more straight forward, and beneficial to all to get those stocks recovered, and then de-listed. ESA impacts go away, and then we're left with the constraint of catch-balancing with the Tribes -- which actually has more flexibility. Recovery is really the key to expanding CR fishing. And that is what a lot of people are working on.
_________________________

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#673000 - 03/28/11 03:29 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: OntheColumbia]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: OntheColumbia
Originally Posted By: Doctor Rick
....If, BIG IF, ESA impacts could be changed and if, .....

Not sure why I keep stepping in but we have to figure this out or leave to the nextgen.


Dr.Rick, I don't see any changes to the 2% allowable ESA impact on upriver spring chinook, that sports and gillnetters share, happening under any reality-based scenario.

It's a lot more straight forward, and beneficial to all to get those stocks recovered, and then de-listed. ESA impacts go away, and then we're left with the constraint of catch-balancing with the Tribes -- which actually has more flexibility. Recovery is really the key to expanding CR fishing. And that is what a lot of people are working on.


Recovering what? Hatchery stocks that are now considered wild?

What stocks are true native stocks that don't or didn't have hatchery supplementation?

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#673016 - 03/28/11 05:09 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: stlhdr1]
OncyT Offline
Spawner

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 511
True native or not, domesticated or not, listed is listed.

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#673017 - 03/28/11 05:21 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: OncyT]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6312
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: OncyT
True native or not, domesticated or not, listed is listed.


Should they be?

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


Top
#673019 - 03/28/11 05:28 PM Re: Gillnet legislation in Oregon [Re: stlhdr1]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7768
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
What we need, I believe, is stocks that spawn in the wild and are self sustaining on their own wiothout supplementation or hatchery "strays". Left to their own devioces, these fish will evolve to the existing CR conditions.

It is quite possible a "pure" native stock from 300 years ago could not survive in the current and future water temperatures.

Whatever spawns in the wild should stand on its own fins. If it can't, then it is not wild.

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