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#728108 - 12/24/11 04:29 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Do you really need one?

It's like asking for the translation of the flashing green sign that says "Walk" on the corner.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728171 - 12/24/11 07:15 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
Yah Todd, I would like to hear what it means to you and why.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#728189 - 12/24/11 07:39 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I'll make you a deal, Richard, since you're the one who needs to hear it from someone else...you tell me what your right wing mind tells you it means, and I'll tell you what my progressive mind thinks it means after you're done.

Deal?

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728288 - 12/25/11 03:28 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
Short version

fair chance--- people will no longer have to use education and hard work to progress up through the "classes".


fair share--- Those that have rose to the top "classes" through hard work, education and sacrifice will have to work harder to support those that pay no income tax.

I truely believe that if everyone has some skin in the game better decisions will be made on the spending of our money.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#728361 - 12/26/11 10:04 AM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Yeah, like you clowns could ever afford to pay for anything I have or will every have!

Merry Christmas smile

Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




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#728376 - 12/26/11 01:52 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
Short version

fair chance--- people will no longer have to use education and hard work to progress up through the "classes".


fair share--- Those that have rose to the top "classes" through hard work, education and sacrifice will have to work harder to support those that pay no income tax.

I truely believe that if everyone has some skin in the game better decisions will be made on the spending of our money.


You really, really, really, really, really...

...REALLY...

...need to stop listening to the right wing fools here or on FauxNews if that's what you really think.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728398 - 12/26/11 04:43 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Jerry - ask yourself this one simple question:

Who REALLY benefits when the 'lower classes' in this country mistrust and blame each other for everything?
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#728419 - 12/26/11 06:41 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
Originally Posted By: Todd
I'll make you a deal, Richard, since you're the one who needs to hear it from someone else...you tell me what your right wing mind tells you it means, and I'll tell you what my progressive mind thinks it means after you're done.

Deal?

Fish on...

Todd


Your turn.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#728445 - 12/26/11 08:50 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: KK
You look like you been eatin' everybody's lunch.............


owned
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#728544 - 12/27/11 01:05 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
Todd?
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#728550 - 12/27/11 01:35 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
Todd?


Hold your horses there, big guy!

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728559 - 12/27/11 02:15 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
So, here's the quote from the President:

Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
What does this really mean?

"Everybody should have a fair chance and everybody should do their fair share"


Pretty simple and straightforward...

Here's your interpretation:

Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
Short version

fair chance--- people will no longer have to use education and hard work to progress up through the "classes".


fair share--- Those that have rose to the top "classes" through hard work, education and sacrifice will have to work harder to support those that pay no income tax.

I truely believe that if everyone has some skin in the game better decisions will be made on the spending of our money.


...taken directly from right wing talking points that make everything into a conspiracy to take things from successful people and give them to lazy poor slobs, especially black and brown people, the most lazy of all.

It's also more fullofshit than Charles Krauthammer, and he's a ten pound sack with fifteen pounds ofshit stuffed in it.

Here we go...

"Everybody should have a fair chance and everybody should do their fair share"

I'll divide it into two parts.

"Everybody should have a fair chance"

This ain't so hard. Everybody in the country, no matter where you live, what color you are, what your current/past/future pay scale is, what your sexual orientation is, what your religion (or lack thereof) is, how long you or your family has been here, whether you are disabled in any way (or not), whatever...whatever you can think of, if you are an American, then you have the same fair chance as anyone else, no matter where they fall in any of those categories, to do whatever you want, to make of your opportunities as best you can, and the only thing in your way is your skills, ambition, and the extent of your imagination.

That ain't so hard, is it? Sounds kinda like the "American Dream"...something that never really existed in its purest form, and sure as hell doesn't now...and it never really will in an actual pure form, but we can sure as hell get as close to it as possible.

Part two...

"...everybody should do their fair share."

Again, really simple words, and pretty damn straightforward.

Right wingers always read "fair share" as "my share"...which, of course, is a lie, and they know it...but like most right wing and especially right wing religious nuts, they always start out by casting themselves as a victim...

"Everybody" includes...everyone. Everyone who is an American. Everyone who avails themselves to the tremendous opportunities and obligations that being an American includes.

If you want to be part of the best country in the world, then you get both...opportunities and obligations.

"Opportunities" is the "fair chance" in the first half.

"Obligations" is the "fair share" in the second half.

Your first obligation is to defend the "fair chance" of everyone, including yourself...if you don't defend it for others, then don't be a fuckin crybaby when no one else defends it for you when you think your "fair chance" is on the chopping block.

That's where the "I've got mine, so fukk you" crowd needs to STFU...you got your chance, now make sure others get theirs, too.

That's an obligation you owe not to those ubiquitious "others"...it's an obligation you owe to your country. Yeah, you don't get an hourly wage for it, so it's a big ol' onerous deal that amounts to class warfare and redistribution of wealth and it's anti-Christian and socialist and only a Nigerian Muslim would come up with it and you're so screwed and now you have to pay taxes which sucks because you're a "job creator" even though you've done nothing but reduce the "jobs" out there time and time again and pocket the savings and Obama hates white people and success is punished...(this is where you add in all the other right talking points that were fullofshit the day they were first uttered, and are even more fullofshit the more they get repeated by those jackasses).

I don't even need to get into "fair taxation"...or "a rising tide floats all boats" or any of that...

You as an American have a DUTY to make sure that others have the same "fair chance" that you did.

Why? Because unless you were born rich, someone else was making sure you had that fair chance to get that way, too...and they have been since the beginning of this country.

The difference between right wing rhetoric and the real world is that right wingers don't think they have a duty to do anything, except look out for themselves, and either lie and say they've done all they've done and got all they've got ONLY through their own hard work (and know they are lying), or they don't lie, and actually believe it (which means they are stupid...at least the liars aren't stupid, just jackasses).

Being an American is all about duties and obligations, to my mind...you are afforded some of the best things ever, in the world, by the happy occurrence of being born an American, or by seeing that is the best country in the world and becoming an American (and those immigrants have worked a helluva lot more than you have to be Americans...all you had to do was get squeezed out and start filling diapers).

You have a duty to make use of the opportunities you have...if you don't, then don't whine about your lot in life.

You have a duty to make sure those opportunities are there for everyone.

Period.

The opportunities don't exist so that those who already got theirs can get more...they exist so those who want to make use of them to improve their lives can...and as soon as they do, they have a duty to make sure others can, too.

The two biggest lies in America, the things that threaten the "American Way" the most are...

1. No one gave me anything...I did it all myself...and...
2. They're just looking for a handout.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728574 - 12/27/11 03:19 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
Wow Todd.

The opportunities don't exist so that those who already got theirs can get more...they exist so those who want to make use of them to improve their lives can...and as soon as they do, they have a duty to make sure others can, too.

So when do I know my life has been improved to the point where I can help others improve there lives? Should I keep the $2,000 plus I donate to various causes and groups each year so I can improve my life with a trip to Craig?

You can take your "right wing retoric" and shove it, I think for myself and don't get any emails or listen to the radio. I took it that Obama is saying that fair chance and fair share doesn't exist now so some change has to be made.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#728575 - 12/27/11 03:19 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
KK, teaching Civics to a RWWJ is like teaching a snagger to swing dries for winter runs...the likelihood of success is not very good.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728576 - 12/27/11 03:21 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Actually... I think Hank is right.

Obama asked for 1.2 trillion in additional domestic spending... but he's secretly gonna be givin' it to the mooslims! eek2

Not much slips by ol' Hankster... that's fer sure! cowboy
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#728577 - 12/27/11 03:21 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Instead of waiting several days and writing up a long response, why didn't you just say...

Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
I took it that Obama is saying that fair chance and fair share doesn't exist now so some change has to be made.


...and then I would have said...

You are right, that is what he was saying...and he's right.

...and we could have saved this entire conversation.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728579 - 12/27/11 03:22 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Oh, and when I write about the American Way and the American Dream and a right wing nutjob tells me to "shove it", then it makes me pretty sure that I was, and will continue to be, correct.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#728581 - 12/27/11 03:24 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
AP a.k.a. Kaiser D Offline
Hippie

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4450
Loc: B'ham
lol

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#728588 - 12/27/11 03:36 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: Todd]
Illyrian Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 1475
Loc: Spokane, wa
Golly Odd, one might think you had legal training. I mean you took so many words
to say what might be said in a coupla sentences. lol
First the lawyers.

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#728602 - 12/27/11 04:02 PM Re: todays Obama speech [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27837
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
This...

Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
What does this really mean?

"Everybody should have a fair chance and everybody should do their fair share"


...means...

Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
I took it that Obama is saying that fair chance and fair share doesn't exist now so some change has to be made.


...and it all means this:

Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
Short version

fair chance--- people will no longer have to use education and hard work to progress up through the "classes".


fair share--- Those that have rose to the top "classes" through hard work, education and sacrifice will have to work harder to support those that pay no income tax.

I truely believe that if everyone has some skin in the game better decisions will be made on the spending of our money.


For real? You really, really think this?

It must be painful to go through life hating America so much, having been born here and all, and being so cynical about what the American Dream means to Americans, and to be so angry all the time about it.

Even if you somehow come up with this drivel all on your own, it's the same drivel that you see coming out of Hannity's mouth when that vein is popping out on his head while he's yelling and screaming and turning red, and the same whining you hear from Krauthammer about how the country is becoming Socialist because we're not greedy enough anymore, or what causes Limbaugh to pop black market pharmaceuticals because he just can't get through a day without being drugged out anymore.

All the while...those who still think that American ideals are...idealistic...and worth pursuing, even while all the right wing talking heads (and apparently independently thinking right wing whack jobs) are all yelling and screaming the exact same things, all the time, about how that America doesn't exist anymore.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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