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#74713 - 02/07/02 03:33 PM small caliber handguns
BERKLEY BOY75 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 679
Loc: AUBURN
i am wondering does anyone have any good ideas for a small handgun in say a .22-.380 and do they make a 35 cal handgun, im looking for a smaller compact model.. i had a .22 beretta but it seemed to start jammin, so i would like to have something more reliable... for cougars and protection.. thanks for any replies **berkley boy**

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#74714 - 02/07/02 03:47 PM Re: small caliber handguns
Bob Offline

Dazed and Confused

Registered: 03/05/99
Posts: 6480
Loc: Forks, WA & Soldotna, AK
Moving to the hunting forum as it seems a little better forum for this topic smile
_________________________
Seen ... on a drive to Stam's house:



"You CANNOT fix stupid!"

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#74715 - 02/07/02 05:18 PM Re: small caliber handguns
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
So you're gonna strap one on, huh? (I mean a handgun. wink )

Few questions for you.

Do you have a CCP?
How much do you want to spend?
What else will it be used for?
Are you taking training?

I'd stay away from the .22's. They are small and cute, got a little Taurus for the wife, but pretty ineffective. If you have one, well, at least you have something.

The .32's and .380's are also on the ineffective side, but can mitigated by loading Corbon or other specialty rounds in the magazine.

.38 special, .380 acp, all 9mm's, and the .357 are all essentially .35 caliber handguns. They shoot bullets that range from .355 to .357 in diameter.

Ruger makes a nice KSP101 in .357 mag that is small, 5 shots, and will stand up to the abuse as an outdoor carry gun. It is stainless steel with rubber/zytel grips, and somewhat inexpensive.

I carry an Hechler & Koch USP Compact in .40 S&W, about $600, and add another $200 for a second caliber barrel, .357 Sig. With hot Corbon 135 grain loads, I can get almost to the power level of a .357 mag, but I have 12 shots instead of 5 or 6. The gun has a finish that resists the elements and I can carry it wearing shorts and a t-shirt and nobody can tell. I also cary a 5 shot .44 special on occassion, but the cylinder makes it less concealable.

Head down to Butch's, Wade's or other reputable gunstore so that you can see the selection and price range. Let them know what you'll be using it for, and start with a 9mm and move up from there. There are plenty of compact full power guns out there that don't require you to spend a fortune, just stay away from the Jennings or other cheap guns. Taurus, Ruger, and a few others make quality firearms for less than $300.

Get enrolled in a training class so you'll know what to do, and remember that your pistol is AN ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT in any situation.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#74716 - 02/07/02 08:35 PM Re: small caliber handguns
GameHunter Offline
Fry

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Bothell
If your looking for something in the self defense range for predtory animals such as bear and cougar, anything in the .22 to 38 caliber range is going to be pretty uneffective. I would suggest a .40 cal or bigger. The only advantage to a small caliber hangun is its accuracy. But the newer simi-auto guns take much of the recoil away because of the gas operation. Thus giving you greater accuracy. I would suggest a H&K which are the most accurate pistol made. Which is my opinion. Go with a older model though with the new laws in affect it is limiting the magazine capcity to 12 or less, while the older pistol hold up to 14 to 20 rounds depending on caliber. My two cents anyway.
_________________________
Its not about the hunt, or the kill. Its something much deeper then that.

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#74717 - 02/07/02 09:46 PM Re: small caliber handguns
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
GH,

Nice to see you agree, but the HK's aren't gas operated. The only gas operated pistols I am aware of are the Desert Eagle family and a pistol made by Olympic Arms that is based on the AR-15 receiver. I'm sure there might be a few others, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Accuracy is a result of practice, and not necessarily the caliber of the pistol, or even the make. A .45 ACP 1911 clone in skilled hands will outshoot a novice with a high dollar .22 most days.

The current model HK USP's will hold 11 rounds in their magazines with the finger groove, at least the .357 Sig and .40 S&W will. They are only supposed to hold 10, but 11 fit easily with out modification or force.

Glock and other pistol brand magazines with higher capacity are available at gun shows, etc, but you will pay more for those than the new 10 rounders. Expect $50 or more, but you may find a deal.

I know, I'm a nerd when it comes to guns, so sorry for being one. rolleyes Forgive me. I sold them for a few years, loaded a few million pistol rounds commercially, and read just about every thing I can on them. Some guys collect baseball cards, I collect guns.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#74718 - 02/08/02 12:05 AM Re: small caliber handguns
chumcatcher Offline
Fry

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 24
Loc: snohomish county
Unless you are very inexperienced with auto-loaders stay away from them. Especially the compacts. They recoil very differently than the full size versons. Start out with a used S&W mod #15 in a 2 r 4" barrel. Take the stock grips off and replace them with either Pachmeyers or Hogue mono-grips. And load it with with 158 gr Winchester Silvertips(or Winchester Black Talons which can be picked up at shows for a considerable price). Be careful of those Corbons unless your have alot of experience. They are very hot and they can be hell on a frame if used a lot, regardless of the manufacture. You can also go with a S&W mod #19 in a 4" which is a .357mag. These two weapons will handle just about everything you will come up against except maybe a bear. The .357 mag has more confirmed one shot stops then any other commonly carried caliber cartridge. Either way, as stated above, PRACTICE PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!! Practice not only shooting but drawing the weapon(empty of course). Practice drawing the weapon from a carry condition a minimum of 3,000 times before you actually carry it loaded. I cannot stress that enough. And know the law! When I had my CCP I carried a S&W mod 19 .357 mag, S&W 4506 .45 ACP, Beretta 92F(w/ported barrler)9mm, Glock 21 .45ACP, and a Glock 22 40S&W. I carried Winchester Black Talons in all of them. Sigs and H&K's are nice guns for sure but there are guns out there that are just as high quality at a cheaper price. Don't buy a gun on looks. Go to a range where you can rent guns and try different ones until you find a gun that feels right, you can handle, meets your needs, and meets your budget. And go into it with the understanding that if you ever have to drop the hammer on someone you will most likely kill them. Ask yourself if you are prepared to do that. Can you live with that? If not then don't do it. Sorry for the long post but as you can see there is more to carrying then buying a gun and "strapping" it on. Carrying a handgun is not a game. It is serious business and carries serious responsibilities.

Good luck.
Chumcatcher

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#74719 - 02/08/02 03:23 PM Re: small caliber handguns
GameHunter Offline
Fry

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Bothell
DF

Sorry for my post about H&K being gas operated I was incorrect. In lack of a better term I stated that I assume the correct term would be spring operated. So I withdraw my stetment. But do disagree with you on the point that accuracy does not depend on the gun. Of course the majority does depend on the user but for a novice allot of the advantage for a young shooter is the ability to control recoil and accurately get back on the target quickly. And for your examply of a accomplished shooter to a novice shooter, of course he will be able to out shoot him with any gun. But you put the same novice shooter on both guns and you will see a difference. Not intending to start a fight here, just a little difference in opinion. And I respect you for you know oviously quick abit more then me in this subject. And I also agree with the post about knowing the responsibilities of carrying a firearm. Never take a gun to a fight and don't expect to use it. Alright I am out.
_________________________
Its not about the hunt, or the kill. Its something much deeper then that.

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#74720 - 02/08/02 05:50 PM Re: small caliber handguns
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
GH,

No problem here. Good response, thanks for taking it in the manner I meant it. I usually poke fun, so thanks for having a thick skin. smile

Now then, about your spelling.... wink
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#74721 - 02/08/02 06:20 PM Re: small caliber handguns
Metalhead Mojo Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 555
Loc: Browns Point
Quote:
Originally posted by chumcatcher:
commonly carried caliber cartridge.
wow, thats almost a tongue twister
_________________________
alcohol, tobacco, firearms, who's bringing the chips?

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#74722 - 02/08/02 11:41 PM Re: small caliber handguns
chumcatcher Offline
Fry

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 24
Loc: snohomish county
Not only that but I think I violated all the rules of writing with that sentence! Besides I had two people talking to me and I was trying to watch TV at the same time. Oh well. Guess I can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. Hate when that happens! laugh

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#74723 - 02/09/02 12:34 AM Re: small caliber handguns
HBP Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 941
Loc: Everett,Wa
I carry a Beretta Mini-Cougar ( no pun intended) in .45acp, depending on why I am carrying it I shoot 165gr. Federal Hydra-Shok for two leggers and kittys, thin skin not much penetration needed. If I'm concerned about bears I carry a Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Rem mag with 210gr handloads. I don't think an auto is ideal for an outdoorsman to carry unless you are religious about cleaning it. A revolver can be loaded and forgoten for 20 yrs and will probably still fire even with all the dust and dirt it will accumulate when carried through the woods and bush.If cougars are your thing I would feel fairly comfortable carrying an auto in at least 9mm.For bears I would'nt like to carry my .45 as a first chioice even with 230gr loads,not enough oomph for me, I'd stick with at least a .357 mag with hot 158gr loads, but a .41 or .44 would be a better choice in my eyes.Just make sure you practice,practice ,practice you need to be very familiar with whatever you choose. I don't think I own a gun that I couldn't field strip with my eyes closed, lotsa shooting= lotsa cleaning!
_________________________
- the sun and the sand and a drink in my hand,with no bottom...no shoes,no shirts,no problems.

- no boss, no clock, no stress, no dress code...no shoes,no shirts, no problems. - Kenny Chesney -

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#74724 - 02/09/02 12:52 AM Re: small caliber handguns
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
That Mini-cougar is a sweet pistol, rotary action and all, right(?). I was deciding between that and my little HK. Access to aftermarket barrels were one of the big reasons I chose the HK, I can shoot 3 calibers on one frame, 9mm, .357 Sig & .40 S&W. 11 different firing modes was the second.

That cougar is perfectly suitable for a romp in the woods, but if I were to be in bear country (Griz), I'd bring out the Model 29 with the 4" barrel, or even better a 12 gauge with slugs, but Jerry (berkley Boy) was looking for a compact gun to carry on trips afield, so I guess that eliminates the big guns like the .41 and .44 mags.

A
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#74725 - 02/09/02 08:09 PM Re: small caliber handguns
BERKLEY BOY75 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 679
Loc: AUBURN
THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO & REPLIES..IM KINDA OVERWHELMED.LOL..SO ANDY, IF YOU WERE ME, WHERE WOULD YOU GO TO BUY YOUR HANDGUN? FOR A DESCENT PRICE?? I LOOKED AT SOME FRIDAY NIGHT AND THEY WERE ALL BASICALLY 600+ DOLLARS, IM MORE FOR ABOUT 350-400..3 CALIBERS IM LOOKING AT ARE .41, .40, 9MM..SINCE LIKE YOU GUYS SAID THE OTHER CALIBERS ARE TO SMALL FOR COUGS AND BEARS..AS FOR THE CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT, DO I APPLY FOR ONE AT THE COURTHOUSE?? THANKS FOR ALL THE RESPONSES.. **BERKLEY BOY**

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#74726 - 02/09/02 09:48 PM Re: small caliber handguns
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
Hi Jerry,

Long time no talk to. I have access to a number of pistols, but check out the Ruger SP101. 5 shots in a compact reveolver. You can also shoot .38 specials out of it for lighter loads. Wade's guns up north, or Larry Guns down in Oly, right near where we met are a few good dealers. They charge wholesale +10%. One guy suggested going to a range where you can rent them. I know of two. There was was in Bellevue, I think it was one of "Wade's", the other was on 220th in Lynnwood.

Taurus makes inexpensive guns, but good quality and excellent warranty. They make both revolvers and autos. .40 cal has more than enough power for just about any encounter, except for BIG GRIZ. The .357 Mag has plenty of power to spare. Kahr makes some nice inexpensive pistols. EAA makes some very servicable pistols (CZ 75), as well.

If you want, some time I can get a collection of pistols together and you can try out a number of calibers and sizes of pistols from .380 ACP to .45 ACP, autos and revolvers. Might even be able to borrow a buddies .454 Casull. It would certainly take care of ANY THING OR BEAST you might run in to. Let me know.

Best advice is to buy a few issues of "Handgun" magazine. This way you can see tech reports, find out what's cool, etc.

Andy
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#74727 - 02/09/02 11:38 PM Re: small caliber handguns
chumcatcher Offline
Fry

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 24
Loc: snohomish county
Dogfish is right on the mark with the Ruger Sp101. Ruger has to make probably the strongest revolvers in the world. They are almost indestructible and very reasonably priced for the quality you get! You may be able to find a good deal on a used one at Wades. I would take Dogfish up on his offer to "test drive" a few.

Good luck.

Chumcatcher

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#74728 - 02/10/02 10:29 AM Re: small caliber handguns
Steeliegreg Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 128
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Howdy all! Thanks Bob for another great chat board! I carry a .45 Colt Combat Commander as my primary carry weapon, both on the river and elsewhere. My wife carries a compact .40. I have my .45 loaded with 165gr. Hydra-Shk's for the river. Plenty for cats, and I figured with the punch of 165gr, at about 1100fps, it would be fine for the Oly. bears? No? I also have a .357 and .41 mag, but prefer the .45 for size. Any thoughts?
My .02 worth, if you are buying only for the woods, you should pick a caliber, weight, etc.. specifically for that, I personally would get one of the new .44 mag "lite" revolvers for only cat and bear. For a carry weapon in "real-life" go with a respectable manufacturer in .40-.45, ie. Kimber, Colt, etc. A good used Colt is around $500, but you can get a new customized Kimber for around $700. Remember why you are buying a weapon, and what it could mean if you ever use it(god forbid).
_________________________
Flyfishing, the gentler art of ripping lips.

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#74729 - 02/11/02 02:02 AM Re: small caliber handguns
HBP Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 941
Loc: Everett,Wa
DOGFISH, the other gun range that you said was on 220th in Mt Lake Terrace,was called the Continental Sportsman it's no longer there it closed last spring. There is another range in Everett on Airport Rd. just off of Hwy 99 called Sams Guns it's not nearly as nice as Continental was but it's indoors and they have a small rental collection about 15-20 guns. I have bought 4 guns at Cascade Pawn in Lynnwood off of 168th and Hwy 99 the guys there know guns and have always beaten prices I brought them from other dealers, they have a good selection of used guns also,it seems like everytime I look there they have 150-200 rifles and the same number of shotguns and handguns. I think their worth a look. Oh Yea, your right about the barrel on the mini-cougar, it also rides nice on the hip even when hiking all day.
_________________________
- the sun and the sand and a drink in my hand,with no bottom...no shoes,no shirts,no problems.

- no boss, no clock, no stress, no dress code...no shoes,no shirts, no problems. - Kenny Chesney -

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#74730 - 02/11/02 11:22 AM Re: small caliber handguns
BERKLEY BOY75 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 679
Loc: AUBURN
hello andy,
ya its been a long time since we have talked, been busy doing a whole lotta nothing, i got married (smack) no time for anything..but ya, i will take your offer about trying out the pistols.. me and a buddy went shooting yesterday, i shot his .45, and ak-47, and i blasted some russian made 30'06 rounds a buddy gave me..i also went to bulls eye in tacoma and looked at some handguns, there prices were way up there, plus i dint see anything to writehome to mom about, so to speak..i'll keep looking till i find the right gun for me..thanks for all the info guys.. **berkley boy**

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