Wow.... You ain't from around here, are you, Boy?

When you suggest that the majority of sport fishers advocating for responsible management of the Chehalis Basin are fly fishers who want the rivers to themselves, it makes a profound statement regarding your lack of knowledge regarding the situation. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure a fly only fishery would be the only thing less popular than the status quo among the local sporties. That sort of sarcastic generalization might not be too far off in some places, but it's eons away in the case of the Chehalis.

...this post written by an ascot-wearing fly flinger from Elma who happens to enjoy casting spinners and twitching jigs in the tidal Chehalis and Satsop almost as much as stripping and swinging flies.

Here we go take a look. Well maybe don't it is perfect on my screen and is Excel but comes up on the thread jumbled so I deleted this post. Oh well so drop down to the simplified one below and Doc should have more.

After trying to read that I am also dazed and confused or just plain too stupid to figure out what it said.

fp

Yeah they are off a spread sheet I do not know how to get excel across and hopefully I get it right but this is off hand written stuff. Anyone wanting the spread sheet PM with a address and I will send it.

Try this

2012 proposed Salmon Seasons
The Following is what I captured from the Grays Harbor Harvest Advisory Committee, Mar,26.
NON TREATY GILL NETTERS. Proposed seasons. Days..
HUMPTULIPS, MARINE AREA 2C
AUGUST,
WEEKS OF.. 15th thru 30th, 2 days, 12 hour days
SEPTEMBER.. 1st thru. 10th, 2 days, 12 hour days.....11th thru, 20th, 1 day, 12 hour day.. 21st, thru 30th, 3 days, 12 hour days.
OCTOBER, 21, thru. 24th, 1 day, 12 hour day.

CHEHALIS, MARINE AREAS, 2D, AND 2A.
OCTOBER....1st thru. 7th, 2 days, 10 hour days...8th thru. 14th, 3 days, 10 hour days.. 15th thru. 20th 3 days, 10 hour days... 25th thru. 31st, 1 day, 10 hour day.
NOVEMBER... 1st thru. 15th. 2 days, 12 hour days
=====================================================================================
RECREATION FISHING SEASONS
HUMPTULIPS... Same as last year as printed in 2011 Regulations. No change for 2012..add 1 wild Coho
CHEHALIS RIVER MAIN STEM.... Sept. 16 thru Sept. 30.. 101 bridge to Porter Bridge. 6 fish daily bag. 3 adult fish daily, release Chinook and Chum...? 3 wild Coho?
OCTOBER.. 1ST THRU Oct.30th. 101 Bridge to Porter Bridge.. 6 fish daily, 3 adult salmon, only 1 Chinook in daily bag limit. release Chum... OCTOBER 1st thru Jan. 30th. Porter Bridge to PeEll,3 adult Coho Daily, release all Chinook, and Chum
TRIBS. Wynoochee...OCT. 1st thru. NOV. 30th.. Mouth to White Bridge Boat Ramp. 2 adult Coho Daily, only 1 unmarked COHO, in daily bag limit. Release all Chinook, and Chum
SATSOP.. OCTOBER 1st thru NOV. 31. 3 adults daily, only one Hatchery, unmarked, Chinook in daily bag, Release unmarked Chinook, and Chum. DEC. 1st thru JAN 31. Release all unmarked Coho, Chinook, and Chum.

wow 9 days on the hump side..way TO MUCH !!!!!!

and 11days on the chehalis again WAY TO MUCH!!!!!

then you got to filter in the Quinns wow not many days without nets agin this yr..

This prediction for a full rec season and plugging in last years GN schedule was not that far off.... R6 modeled a deficit of 500+ kings.

Various rec and GN options were explored to reduce those chinook impacts down to a level that would meet conservation objectives. From there, various options were explored to further reduce rec opportunity to free up more chinook impacts for addl GN days in 2A/2D.

A fully funded rec season would begin Sept 16 and include a 3 fish adult bag with 6 weeks of 1-chinook retention in the bay and mainstem Chehalis. Options explored included a reduced 4 wk chinook retention in the bay and FW, as well as a reduced 2 wk chinook retention in the bay. Will post what each component "costs" in terms of wild Chehalis chinook when I get home.

GN options included every permutation of add'l days imaginable... too many to post here.

NOTE TO ALL: Virtually all negotiations at Friday's meeting will be expressed in a common "currency".... namely wild Chehalis chinook. There are 2935 of them to spend, with a directive that most of them be spent on rec. The conservation objective is achieved as long as we don't go over 2935 paper chinook. Beyond that, there will be no other discussion about conservation. The competing issues for us as a sport community is balancing a need to selfishly assert enough of a share to preserve a meaningful rec opportunity for marine and FW (particularly FW) without appearing too greedy. Every last fish we leave behind WILL be used to advance the 2A/2D GN's.

Regardless of how it all shakes out on paper, the reality is that too many 2A/2D days will effectively squash ANY opportunity for FW recs. With the HUGE numbers of fish predicted to return, you can bet our co-mangers will be asserting their entitlement to harvest their half. Count on a MUCH more aggressive QIN schedule thru all of October, perhaps 20 days or more... or even some days in Sept. They remain extremely unreceptive to the strategy of fishing in common with our GN's. If that's how it all goes down, then 2A/2D time granted to our GN's could result in 7 days/wk thru most of Oct. That certainly doesn't buy much FW opportunity.

We should not give up ANY chinook to fuel gill netting. I don't want to see them die, but I'd rather see them go home to someone's house to be eaten than put money in somebody's pocket.

I think with the amount of coho on the table, we need to insist on a 6 fish limit of which 4 can be adults and one can be chinook. Why not? Chinook retention is what brings the crowd so they're already going to be there.

To Eyefish and others in the "Trenches",
First, Thanks for carrying the weight. Now for my question,
Is there any chance or desire to get the lower Chehalis or Satsop open for retention of 1 wild coho through the end of December or January?

I should qualify this...

A few of us will be urging R6 to carefully re-assess the assumptions that go into the harvest model.... namely (1) the mixing ratios of Chehalis and Hump in various areas of Grays Harbor and (2) an honest accounting of the chinook-fishing power of both fleets.

If one makes invalid assumptions, then one can easily and significantly understate the number of paper fish (wild Chehalis kings) that are expected to die in these fisheries.

The historic record on actual rec harvest (post season) repeatedly blows the predicted chinook harvest numbers right outta the water.

NOPE... specifically prohibited in the Tier Plan.

No directed fisheries on LATE wild Chehalis coho.

No surprise here on the tribal side. Pretty predictable.





OK this is where I get a little confused.

Wild Chehalis Chinook are the driver for rec and non-tribal GN seasons. You stated earlier that the Dept has a directive to give most of the Chinook impact to the rec side. If the 2A/2D non-tribal Gillnets go in 7 days a week through most of October in your scenario above, how in the hell do the chinook impacts stay down?

So, a banner return predicted on coho and a good return on kings, correct? Tribes potentially netting in latter Sept, up to 20+ days in October, the non-tribals much of October in 2A/2D(in your above scenario) and tribal undoubtedly back in for a good portion of November.

Remind me again why I'm supposed to be excited?

Francis, Thanks for your hard work. I know your swinging a heavy bat and are doing your damndest to get us a good set of seasons but you said it yourself......"that certainly doesn't buy much FW opportunity" in the wake of the gillnet parade.

I guess I shouldn't get too fired up until things are cast in stone at the next meeting(s) but your GN scenario doesn't paint a very rosy pic for the rec side in this year of above avg. returns.

Just seems like business as usual in Region 6.

A slightly different way to restate what Doc is saying is that when the fishery is crafted we will catch a certain number of kings. The model will call more of these Hump kings and less of them Chehalis kings. The result is more Chehalis kings available for gill net days. No one will check the actual wild kings as to their source and no one will be wise to the fact that the Chehalis kings were badly over harvested into escapement. The fishery will appear to be perfectly crafted with congrats and bonuses all around. The ability to tweek input assumptions with no oversight allows the final output to be anything the department decides before hand and with no transparency for the model no one will be able to figure it out.

I should clarify.... I was referring to COMBINED gillnetting by QIN and R6.

Let's say for a moment that the numbers on paper worked out where R6 granted our GN's two 2A/2D days per week in Oct.

Tribe sees it fit to run a 5 day/wk schedule and puts their foot down about fishing "in common with."

Now you've got 7 days per week of GN's targeting Chehalis stock. Would REALLY suck to fish above that!

Thanks Francis,
To be clear, the tier plan specifies no directed rec fisheries for late coho??
Or is the Tribal fishery Dec-Jan fishery intended as a "steelhead" fishery?

Bingo!

At least that's the way it's been explained to me the last several years. Tribes will even tell you so.

Tier Plan does NOT apply to the QIN.
It directs us how to manage the NON-treaty share. No directed fishing on LATE coho for us.... period!

OK all big truth time. Nobody argues with the Doc man as much as I do, that said he is in the fight for the fish and for the sport fishery. From my perspective he struggles with his ideals of conservation vs the reality of harvest, we all do. So the Doc man does his best but he can not pack this bitch down the road by himself.

So everyone needs to get it. Conservation, good god yes but when a paper fish is present the fish WILL die on paper. SO IF YOU WANT A QUALITY SPORT FISHERY IT IS ABOUT MESSAGE. Sport first, screw the commercial. Pretty simple do not you thinlk? A walk to the river or a boat ride is just that if you kill every damn thing in the river below Sand Island. Francis is one of our best and brightest advocates but he will not move the system by himself. We need to be on message that the message of the only good fish is a dead fish is WRONG. The fish has value in the sportsman's pursuit of catching it. Frankly it is the most valuable part of harvest, the sportsman's hapless pursuit!

As a sideline, I am open to coaching as how to improve my miserable ability to pursue and catch the creature.

Hey just caught that Soft Bite, not bad and you have no idea how close you are to the truth. Or maybe you do!

Thank You for the quick response!