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#76287 - 04/04/03 10:53 AM Wolf Question???

Got a couple of questions for the folks that would like to see wolves re-introduced back to Washington.

Lets say it gets the go ahead and a permit is issued for re-introduction.
Where do you suggest the funding for this come from. Would you like to see it taken from another program and if so what program would you like to see shortchanged?

Lets do some simple "guestamints". For the re-introduction to the proposed Olympic Mtns. pack.

Wolf transfer from outside area 25,000

Hire a couple of Biologists at 50,000 year, each. (100,000)

Couple of trucks 60,000

Administration costs, office, equipment, computers, etc. etc. 30,000

Admin, Personel (1-2) 30,000 year for one, so lets say 45,000 for 1 1/2

Miscellaneous Equipment, Collars, GPS's, plane/helicopter etc. etc. 50,000

I am sure there are many more expendatures, but I am not trying to write a budget but only to get you thinking about the funding end of things and the costs associated with doing what some think is a positive move for Washington.

I ask again, what programs would you like to see cut or reduced to appease a user group that does not contribute to the WDFW budget, but only causes an expendature?

Would a forced Wolf Enhancement stamp be acceptable?

#76288 - 04/04/03 10:58 PM Re: Wolf Question???
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy Offline

Registered: 10/15/01
Posts: 912
Loc: Enumclaw
I'd support it. Costs would be much higher than what you proposed, but it's still feasible if he ever get a director/governor (And I do mean BOTH) who do anything but sit on their ass and try to look serious.

Those collars are expensive! The cougar ones are 7k EACH... think of a whole pack for wolves. DAMN.... I think a lot of it should be volunteer work.

It would really be nice to see some more wolves in Washington though. Coyotes are nice to see, but I'd like to see more exotic wildlife in my time (I'm 16)... More bears, cougs, definitely more bobcats, loons...


P.S. Start kissin my ass now, cause in 10-20 years, I'll be runnin for gov. laugh

#76289 - 04/05/03 10:44 AM Re: Wolf Question???

Registered: 03/09/99
Posts: 511
If you ask me it's way too expensive for a department already underfunded. What I think they would cut if implemented would be the hatcheries & some more game cops. I haven't seen a warden in years & in my book I should be getting checked all the time. Maybe it's my preference in places I go. I'm not fishing in the terminal areas or road hunting so that could be part of it. With the reintroductions of wolves elswhere they will migrate to this state on the east side very shortly but I bet they already have. I read that they are eating livestock in Oregon already. So you may see some along the eastern Oregon, Idaho, & BC borders.

#76290 - 04/05/03 11:10 AM Re: Wolf Question???


As stated I was not trying to write a budget, but just using some "guestament" figures. I am sure I left many thing out and my numbers could be very soft.
The point I am trying to get to here is the fact that these programs cost alot of money! and since there seem to be many on this board that are in love with the wolf and want to see re-introduction(as evident in the GMU 346 thread).
I am asking those folks and you, how should it be funded, what programs do you want cut from to pay for it?

Knopish,, I am very relieved to see someone that thinks with their head instead of their bleeding heart wink if you get a chance scan the GMU 346 thread and you'll see why I started this thread. wink

HBP,, where are you?

#76291 - 04/05/03 11:12 AM Re: Wolf Question???
CWUgirl Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 374
Loc: Seattle, WA
I would NOT like to see wolves re-introduced to Washington. If you want to see what happens, just look at Idaho....Areas inhabited by wolves have had their elk herds decimated and the elk left no longer bugle. I don't want to see that in Washington and to be honest, I don't think there is enough wildreness to keep wolves and people seperate.

Voodoo...More bears and cougars? HUH?? There are plenty of bears and cougars in this state as it is with a growing population thanks to anti-hunting iniatives. These critters aren't our buddies.. cool to see, but we definitely do not need more of them.
"If fishing is like religion, then flyfishing is high church." -Tom Brokaw

#76292 - 04/05/03 11:51 AM Re: Wolf Question???
glowball Offline

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 786
Loc: bullcanyon
Maybe vodoo aught to try and get out and look around a bit. You need more bears and cougars than we already have. I guess you don't like deer very much. 1 deer a week for EVERY cougar running around out there.

Too many things wrong with bringing wolves back. They too will take their toll on the deer and elk herds. To make it work we as sportstmen(cwugirl) would have to quit hunting all together to leave enough game so the wolves wouldn't completely wipe them out. Do you honestly think that mother nature can survive with us, wolves, cougars, and all the other creatures that get a deer here and there. A lot has changed since wolves were wiped out. Unless you will quit hunting yourself, quit promoting wolves. Unless of course you can come up with something that shows I'm wrong here. GOOD LUCK to ya.
Oh and another thing if wolves are somehow reintroduced some day. Don't cry about how you didn't get your deer because the wolves got it for you.
There's no head like steelhead!
Operations manager of coors light testing facility.

#76293 - 04/05/03 02:12 PM Re: Wolf Question???
stilly bum Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/19/01
Posts: 250
Loc: SnoCo
We've got to many cougars already. Anyone who wants more cougars hasn't been out much. We don't need wolves added to the party. If they want to introduce wolves they should put them somewhere close to seattle. Maybe near a park on the east side. Then some of the anti-hunting yuppies who want to see more wildlife will get to see just that.
If anybody needs me, I'll be on the river.

#76294 - 04/05/03 02:14 PM Re: Wolf Question???

Glowball brings up a good point. Wolf diet would consist mostly of deer and elk? right.

Well the areas these animals will be introduced will have a decrease in the above mentioned species, thus resulting in less consumptive users, thus resulting in less income($$) for WDFW.
I think we could call this a trickle effect from the re-introduction.
Sportsmen not buying licences because of less opportunities, because of the wolf depradation = less monies to the department, but then we now have more expendatures to support "wolf" programs with less and less income.

I didnt read in CWU post where she was in favor of this. It sounded likea resounding "NO"
Did you confuse her with BBVD?

BBVD,, I surely hope that before you get elected into office you will learn some realalistic lessons, maybe finance "101"
We have too many "fuzzy math" politicians out there now.
I apploud you for thinking down the road and having goals, but hopefully when you get in that position, common sense will have entrenched itself within you and the knee jerk, warm and fuzzy, feel good decisions will not be part of your decision making processes.

HBP, where is your finance plan for re-introduction? I am very curious! Gas tax? Sin tax? How about a tax on all organically grown food? or do you think the sportsmen should pay for it?
Come on whatcha got?

#76295 - 04/05/03 03:13 PM Re: Wolf Question???
TRAUT Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 216
Program cuts to fund a WDFW program ? You gotta be kidding. This is Washington State, man. They'll just tack it on to the hunting license, or approve some sort of other tax without voter approval (kinda like the gas tax they are shoving through now, or the stadium taxes, or ferry fees, etc , etc, replace the ones the voters rejected at the polls) Us dumb voters can't possibly know what we really want. Thank goodness we have the legislature to keep spending our money. Otherwise we might actually have enough money to hunt and fish as much as we wanted!

#76296 - 04/05/03 05:39 PM Re: Wolf Question???
Scott B. Offline

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Forks
Heres another no vote for the wolve reintro!!! We have enough problems with the bear and cougs that we don't need to add the wolves. The problem is that its the same people who voted out hound hunting as a means to manage predators that are wanting the wolves so those of us with common sense and who are really affected by it are outnumbered. If you want to get all goosebumpy from seeing or hearing a wolf go to the zoo or better yet go buy one and have it your own backyard. Oh you have kids or other pets so it wouldn't be safe hmmm now your thinking! I say lets try to actually properly manage what we have before we take on something else , the wolves,that other states with more elk and deer and wilderness area can't seem to figure out. Just my 2cents.Nwhunter

#76297 - 04/05/03 07:03 PM Re: Wolf Question???
Hairy Ape Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/25/03
Posts: 119
Loc: Rochester, Washington
Why would the state re-introduce wolves, when they are already here? Makes no sense. If the conditions are right, they will increase and spread throughout the state, on their own. No need to spend millions of dollars on bringing back wolves. I don't think anybody wants them anyway. Now, about that gas tax...where do you expect the state to get money to maintain roads if not from a gas tax?

#76298 - 04/05/03 08:54 PM Re: Wolf Question???
bri24 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 287
Loc: Renton, WA
I agree with hairy ape why introduce them when you can go over to gmu 346 and see that they are already here. thumbs
I've got a Shotgun,a rifle and a 4-wheel drive and a country boy can survive. - HANK WILLIAMS JR

#76299 - 04/06/03 12:39 AM Re: Wolf Question???

Hey there Bri, why not save everyone a bunch of money and report what you were a witness to.

#76300 - 04/06/03 03:36 AM Re: Wolf Question???
RipDatLip Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 301
Loc: Battle Ground, WA
Why introduce more wolves? If they spread they might become a threat to society and then be killed off. That would be a waste of money! I don't want to encounter any wolves and I would not support introduction. I see 'em I kill 'em because people and wolves don't mix.

Fishing... Not just a sport, not just an obsession, just one strong INSTINCT.

#76301 - 04/06/03 03:39 AM Re: Wolf Question???
bri24 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 287
Loc: Renton, WA
Driftboater, once and for all I have seen them, other's from the board have seen them. Why report something that the state already knows is there. So say what you want, start the thread's that you want (this thread is just a knock off of my gmu 346 thread) and believe what you want.
You will get no further post's from me on this stupid subject. I have read some of your other post's to people on this board and It's apparent you just like to argue with other's. So get a life and move on, wolve's are in washington and have been here for a long time. Just because you don't beleive it doesn't mean other's have not seen it. I have and that's where I stand on it.
I've got a Shotgun,a rifle and a 4-wheel drive and a country boy can survive. - HANK WILLIAMS JR

#76302 - 04/06/03 12:08 PM Re: Wolf Question???

Oh BriBri.....

Knock off thread, blah! Its a thread about where the finances will come from for re-introduction. Dont like it dont respond! as evidient from your first post you made, you had no idea or nothing to add about the funding questions I posed.

Just because you don't beleive it doesn't mean other's have not seen it
Where did I say I dont believe you? I stated you witnessed an illegal activity and IMO should report it to the authorities.

It's apparent you just like to argue with other's
Hey I call like I see it , No PC go with crowd responce from me.

. So get a life and move on,
Hey thanks, I am glad you know so much about me! I'll keep your suggestion in my thoughts.

You will get no further post's from me on this stupid subject.
Thank God!

#76303 - 04/06/03 11:54 PM Re: Wolf Question???
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy Offline

Registered: 10/15/01
Posts: 912
Loc: Enumclaw
Hey, anyone that says there are to many cougars and bear, e-mail me at

Show me those bear and cougars you're always seeing... we'll set a date for the fall.. I'll bring the bow okay?

I'm having lots of troubles finding them unless I'm with Bruce, so I'll just use you guys, since you seem to know what youre doing to!

Seeya then!


#76304 - 04/07/03 01:02 AM Re: Wolf Question???
Scott B. Offline

Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Forks
Big bad vd, I'm not sure if you understand that predators are something you don't want a lot of!! These are critters that you don't see a lot of just the evidence they leave that they are around. For instance you may not see a bear but all those dead trees in a replanted unit are mostly from bears. And cougars are rarely seen but the remains from there kills are. Sure I would love to get a cougar or bear with my bow to but I sure don't want to see there populations increased to improve my odds because they will wipe the deer and elk in short order.

#76305 - 04/07/03 01:18 AM Re: Wolf Question???
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy Offline

Registered: 10/15/01
Posts: 912
Loc: Enumclaw
Scott thanks. That post right there explained it all to me. No name callin, nothin. Thanks bro, you seriously just won me over


#76306 - 04/07/03 01:31 AM Re: Wolf Question???

I sure hope you dont think I was name calling you. I apploud you for having goals and if the Govenors office is one of them, wonderful! more power to ya!

Here is a post I made a few weeks ago on another board about the cougar problems we are facing in this state and what is happening to rectify them.

Wonder how much it cost to hire them?
Anyways, I am glad they do this for public safety, but look at the part where it says that the Department "Hired" them, Thats what urks me! I know you all have heard this a hundred times. But, hear it goes again!
We had a Scientific Wildlife Managment tool taken from us in 1996 by the passage of the HSUS sponsored I-655 Which banned Hounds and Baits. Now we get depradation permits issued, hire a Houndsman and do it the same way we did before 1996, but now we have to take monies away from another fund to pay for it.
Just a few years ago I heard the Department spent over a million dollars in managing the cougar problems we have encounterd since the passage. I do not have any money numbers prior to the passage but I do have some complaint numbers that are quite revealing. They tooka revenue producing managment tool away and now causes us an expendature which undoubtedly takes funding away from another fund.

From the WDFW,
1995 confirmed cougar complaints 247
1998 confirmed cougar complaints 927

I just doesnt make sense to me!

Things I have done on my end when this topic comes up around the water cooler is make statements like the above informing them of the obsurdnees that has transpired and continues to. So pass it along when you have the chance..

(Hey xxxxxx, isnt that pine creek area is your stomping grounds? I have seen some large track up above there.)

Emergency hunts result in three cougars killed
Hunts were allowed in three counties, but animals were killed in Okanogan County
John Craig
March 22, 2003

Last week's emergency cougar hunts in Okanogan, Ferry and Stevens counties resulted in three cougars being killed, all in Okanogan County.
In addition, however, a young female cougar was killed under routine procedures last weekend in northern Stevens County. The Washington Fish and Wildlife Department issued a depredation permit for that cougar when it was spotted near a horse corral in the triangular area bounded by the Columbia and Kettle rivers and the Canadian border.

Fish and Wildlife Capt. Mike Whorton in Spokane said houndsmen hired by the department hunted "extensively" in four areas where Stevens and Ferry County commissioners said frequent sightings warranted the special hunting permits that expired March 15.

Department Director Jeff Koenings authorized two special permits each in Stevens and Ferry counties and 10 in Okanogan County after a meeting in Olympia in which county commissioners called for stronger action to protect people and property from cougars. Whorton said those permits were used for unsuccessful hound hunting in two areas near Deer Lake in Stevens County and two spots near Republic in Ferry County.

Hunters were more successful in Okanogan County. Fish and Wildlife Sgt. Jim Brown said two cougars were killed in the Methow Valley, within a few miles of the towns of Winthrop and Twisp, and one in the Salmon Creek area northwest of Okanogan.

Although the special permits expired, Brown said pre-existing depredation permits for three cougars will remain active. Those permits are for a mountain lion that has been hanging around the south edge of Oroville and for one or two lions that have been prowling ranches in the Pine Creek area, midway between Tonasket and Oroville.


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