This is a copy of the email I just sent the WDFW. Check the numbers for yourself. I think it is time we stop letting the state screw one group or another. This is my first year Muzzleloading. The Game trails is online or at some stores and WDFW.

I have just read your Equal Opportunity for Achers, Muzzleloaders, and Modern Firearm Hunters in Washington Hunting News, Game Trails/Hunter News 2003. I have to strongly disagree with the "Equal Opportunity" part. I decided to see just how equal access is. Modern firearm hunters have 128 GMU's to hunt deer in during the early season. Archers have 125 GMU's. That is pretty even so far. Then comes the smallest group, Muzzleloaders, who have 62 GMU's, or about half the access. Now correct me if I am wrong but 62 and 125-128 are no where near equal. Late season is 68 for Modern, 71 for Archers, again pretty equal, then 24 for Muzzleloaders. Yet again no where near equal. This is just deer. Now I decided to check out Elk. Modern have 93 GMU's to hunt early season, with no late season. Archers have 91 early GMU's. Muzzleloaders have 48. Yet again about half the GMU's. Archers have 36 late season GMU's. Muzzleloaders have 20, slightly more then half. Using your own numbers there are only 4.5% of the deer hunters in the state who use a Muzzleloader. 12.7% use a bow, and 82.7% a modern firearm. Using your numbers from the 2002 Game Harvest report there were a total of 7667 Muzzleloader deer hunters with a success rate of 25.6%. Archers had 16380 with a success rate of 22.3%. Modern had 113874 with a success rate of 24.9%. This is the only close to "equal" I could find, success rates. When you put the smallest group in the fewest areas, it starts to look alot like, "you use that fountain over there and ride in the back of the bus too". Which really upsets me. There is no reason why Muzzleloaders cannot have the same number of areas to hunt like the rest of the hunters, especially since the harvest rates are so close to the same. You need to look into making access a true Equal Opportunity. I hope you will respond with a valid scientific reason for this drastic difference. That load of words in Game Trails is just a fancy way of saying he who shouts the loudest gets the most. I am also forwarding this to several Muzzleloader groups in an effort to help you in your future decision making.

i just got back from muzzle elk in bethel ridge i drew a any bull tag and as of the this a.m. there were still 9 guys that i know of trying to fill there tag. archery got 120 tags, rifle got 130 tags and muzzleloaders got 23 tags.plus rifle tag holders get five more days before the regular season starts. i am really interested in what there reply to your letter will be

I have been dealing with this for many years and have just accepted it and I have no issue scoring deer, 14 for 14 years, and 5 elk in 8 years.

I learn the areas that are open, and historically they remain the same. Sure, I'd like to hunt some areas in the early season, but know they will be open in the late season.

I had a chance to ride along with a State biologist in March when I participated in an elk dart and collar project. I asked that very question, "Why so stingy on the ML hunts?"

Max answered that there are a number of factors.

1. The rifle hunters deserve a shot at some areas where the deer have had a break between methods. Some area get hunted by bow, then a break during ML, then open for modern.

2. Hunting with a bow in an area with high pressure is VERY difficult. They spread the users over a wider area to reduce the pressure, increasing the harvest opportunity.

3. Many areas open in the late season for bowhunters are also open to ML hunters. To give the bow hunters areas with reduced pressure (no ML hunters) they create "bow only" units.

4. One concession to ML hunters that has been made in a number of units is that very good units with high concentrations of deer are either sex. Lincoln and Deschutes are two that come to mind.

The only time I have ever felt at a disadvantage with a ML has been on a running deer, (I have dropped at least 3 deer running with a rifle, knowing I have an opportunity for a quick follow-up shot), and animals farther away than 75 yards (my personal limit I set for my ML). Then again, only 3 deer I have taken have been further away than 100 yards, and all elk were within 40 yards or less.

I hunt for meat, not necessariily horns. They are nice to have, but are pretty tough on the teeth.

A few reasons why you see a high success rate for ML hunters are that they tend to have hunted for a number of years prior to switching over to a more challenging method. The seasons are over a month long during the best weather for deer hunting (no leaves obscurring views in the woods, and the forest is wet and quiet). Any deer or elk with 50 yards is in serious danger, as opposed to 25 yards for a bow.

Sorry to read your dissapointment with the seasons, but you know what they are before you choose your method, so you really have nobody to blame but yourself. If you need help on some areas to hunt, send me a PM and I can direct you to a few spots.

This week I have hunted every night after and have seen 5,7,2,10, and 9 deer each evening. All does and fawns. Tonight I also saw a bear for about 1 second before he dove into the brush. No shortage of animals in the area I was hunting, and I only saw 1 other deer hunter all week. There was a serious shortage of hunters.

Good luck on your hunts!

Andy

"Sorry to read your dissapointment with the seasons, but you know what they are before you choose your method, so you really have nobody to blame but yourself."

Ditto.

My choice to hunt ML this year had nothing to do with number of areas. I wanted fewer people and longer time in the woods, which is exactly what I got. I saw 3 deer opening day, 0 for the next three days, 5 on the 5th day, 16 the 6th day. I rested the 7th day for modern opening hunts with family. Not one elk. I hunted many local areas with limited access and walked and rode my bike. Except Ft. Lewis, where I walked and road hunted. What makes me mad is the state acting like they are doing us a favor by having fewer areas, when they are not. What needs to happen is the seasons need to open at different times. Our hunting license is from April to March each year. Why not open Archery and ML as normal each Sept and Oct in all the areas. Then break for two weeks. Open modern for normal lenght. Break for a week or two and finish Archery and Ml into the first couple weeks of Jan. I have hunted modern for 11 years in this state. The past five years have been too crowded. Between the increase in hunters and the private timbers shutting down access, it will only get worse. Look at it this way. You stick 2600 hunters in a 618 square mile area. How likely is it that someone may get injured because some moron shoots at a noise? Remeber even a .22 goes for 1.5 miles. That is what you have if you hunt the Vail Tree farm during Modern season. That is why I changed methods. What happens when you start sticking 150 camo clad ML hunters in an area that is 300 square miles? I took my girlfriend and her 14 year old daughter out this year modern season. We saw tons of animals, 31 deer over two days and tons of hunters close to 500. The daughter even took her first deer ever, a spike. This does not mean I will go back to modern yet, even though the area we hunted was closed to ML. All I want is equal access to equal areas. The archers got it when they raised their voices, we ML should too.

If the WDFW opens the entire state for the special muzzleloader season, all that will happen is more people will go out and buy muzzleloaders, and the number of hunters per square mile will not change. It may decrease crowding during modern firearm seasons though.The best way for the state to limit the number of hunters in each particular game management unit, would be to make all deer and elk hunting by permit only. And really, that is what needs to be done, and I am sure it will happen eventually. A lot of people will *****, but how can the state manage our wildlife without limiting the number of hunters? It just can't be done. Almost all western states now limit the number of deer and elk tags, and the numbers fluctuate every year depending on population counts. The WDFW should be doing this also. This is just about the only western state that sells over-the-counter tags with no limit whatsoever, even to non-residents. I am sure the only reason they mis-manage in this way is that most hunters would ***** if they couldn't hunt every single year.

I would like it if you just bought a tag, and then got to hunt the whole season. Start out archery if you wanted, then ML, then modern, then ML or archery for the remainder of the year. So much simpler.

I agree that if everything is opened to MLs then more people will chose that method. I looked into it but stayed with modern because none of the areas I hunt are open for muzzel loaders.
If you saw 500 other hunters you need to find some new areas to hunt. Hunting both days this weekend we saw two others.

Dogfish,

I don't know if I agree with just buying a license and then hunting archery, ML, then modern. There are already too many hunters that don't practice their one method enough before season and end up hitting the animal wrong and taking unethical shots. These people with three methods could get downright scary.

I think if we went to that license method people should have to get certified that they can shoot before they can hunt. Say 3 arrows at 25-30 yard kill zone( I am not talking a match pack, but a large kill zone). 3 ML shots at 40-50 yards. And maybe 3 shots of modern at 80-100 yards. Just a bare minimum certification, every few years or so for every method. If you can't shoot these short distances, you can't hunt. period. They should just implement this now. (especially during bow season) I am a bow hunter and I am appalled at some peoples shooting abilities, that choose to hunt.

Kore,

If you and I wrote the regulations life would be so much simpler. I would require a test for fishing, as well.

Many states, especially back east and down south, have a number of seasons, allowing hunters to take a number of deer per year, not just one. This is probably why they allow folks to hunt more than one season, and the fact that they have much higher deer densities.

I can always wish.

Yeah life would would be simpler if I was King.

I would love to be able to hunt different methods for big game. But another reason not to is: I don't know if I could afford it. With all my fishing gear, and archery, snowboarding.... I probably would have to declare bankruptcy

Kore for king!





herm