I went pheasant hunting twice this past week and it was great. I'm also planning on going duck hunting this month and next month. I hate being dependent on someone else for any of my hunting, though, so that means I need to get a dog of my own. What, in your opinion, is the best breed for all-around upland/waterfowl hunting? I just about fell in love with the GSP that I hunted with, but I'm betting he wouldn't be much good in a duck hunting situation. He was a wonderful dog, though, and I'd trust him with my 3-year-old daughter.

Get a Lab. They are a great family dog,and will hunt upland birds or waterfowl.

Will a lab point, or just flush?

There are kennels that specialize in "pointing" Labs. I've never hunted over such a Lab,so I don't know if they are truly a pointer or not. I don't hunt alot of upland birds,but when I do my Lab does a decent job.

I fully agree with HBP. I hunt with my lab and a friends lab, wonderful dogs.

Another vote for labs (female too). Both of the labs I've had/have pointed over the years. Not like a English, but more like "cover points". Where the cover was very thick and the birds (mainly quail and pheasants in cattails) decided to hole-up rather than bail. It's nice, but not a necessity...you just need faster shoes chasin' the roosters.

Definately go to a professional kennel, but not a puppy mill. THe kennel where we've gotten our dogs for 23 years is about done, so I found some really nice dogs in Ellensburg at pointinglabradors.com. They sell "guaranteed" pointing labs, but he also sells non-pointers that haven't passed his "pointing tests". A good friend has a 5 month old yellow ***** and she's just great. They're not cheap, but over 10 years, who cares. THe purchase of the dog is the cheap part of "having a dog". I hope this helps.

I've spent most of my hunting career behind either GSHPs or Labs (27 years worth of hunting). Both are fantastic dogs but the Lab is more of the SUV of hunting in my opinion, where as the GSHP is a Porsche.

It would come down to what you think you would do the most. If it was going to be 80+ % upland, I would get the GSHP. If it was 50/50 or more migratory hunting, I would get the Lab. Around home, they are both typically good pets with the Lab getting the nod. A GSHP must be excersized every day, they have so much energy, and I would rate them as higher maintenance. Both have the potential to destroy your yard if they are allowed to run free (I've spent thousands on yard work due to dogs).

Hope this helps.

PD

Here's another vote for a lab.

Furthermore, I'm strongly against a first time bird dog owner buying a german shorthair. Why? German Shorthairs have a tendency to be nuerotic, super high energy, range out too far (for most conditions in WA) and are more difficult to train than any of the retriever or spaniel breeds. About half the GSPs I've hunted with have been good in the field and pleasent to be around, the other half were some combination of dog aggressive, people aggressive, extremely shyness, and a couple had BAD seperation anxiety. GSPs as retrievers are excellent (for a pointing breed) but are not apporpriate for waterfowl hunting in weather lower than the 40's.

Before you get any dog, look at it realistically. How many days per year will you bird hunt? If under 15 days a year, don't get a dog. You'll never have a reliable dog if they don't get in to birds often. If you hunt at least 15-30 days, get a retriever. If you hunt more than 30 days, you're making a case for a pointer. Pointers are the porche of the dog world and although they're excellent at what they do, they require much more maintence to keep them at a high level of ability.

The benefits of a lab are that they are easy to train, easy to keep, and very forgiving of a novice's mistakes. Get a few books (the 10 minute retriever is great) and take him/her to obedience classes earily and continue training throughout life.

When you decide to get a dog, please pick a responsible breeder. I have a dog that had to be retired at 6 due to bad breeding- she has severe elbow dysplacia- and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Its an expensive mistake. Make sure the parents are OFA'd for hips (and preferably elbows) and CERF'd for eyes. You can end up with a dysplacitic dog even from healthy parents, but you're stacking the odds in your favor with the health screenings.

If I were looking for a lab right now, I'd get one out of his kennel- http://www.rockingmlabs.com The Tanner litter and the Fire litter both are perfect for hunting and pets. With those pedigrees, you're pretty much guarenteed end up with a pup with all the tools to becoming an awesome dog.

Buy a trained or least started dog no matter what kind of dog you get. Otherwise, you have to wait until they grow up to use them. While you are waiting, you may find out they aren't suitable as a hunting companion or have health problems, and you'll just have a pet.

If you will primarily duck hunt, buy a lab. They will work fine as a flushing dog and will be superior for waterfowl and pets.

Be warned though that many labs are hyper which goes back to my point about buying a started or trained dog.

Can't go to wrong with a Lab as long as you do the research, ask a lot of questions, and get references. Make sure you get the temperment you want.

Although I have both, I do love my Chessie!!!

Buying a started or trained dog has its advantages, but they come with a fair amount of risks and challenges as well.

The price tag for a started dog will be from $1000-3000 depending on the amount of training and the pedigree. A finished dog can be as much as $5000. While those seem high, if you add up all the time, food, and veterinary care, the trainer isn't getting rich.

First issue with started dogs is the reason they're being sold. Most are wash outs from hunt test/trials. That might mean they're not especially driven, which is probably just fine for a hunter. But it might mean aren't very biddable or are unmanagable in the field.

A started dog most likely has been kenneled all its life. It may or may not ajust to family life. My dog is kept indoors most of the time, it might be a challenge to get a kennel dog to settle down in the house. Plus they won't be house trained.

The biggest challenge is getting a started/trained dog to bond to you and work for you. That bond makes the difference between a dog that works and a dog that doesn't. In my opinion its much easier to develop a bond with a puppy than a trained dog, not that it can't be done.

As for labs being hyper, that's just code for being out of control. If you don't train and work with your dog regularly from 7 weeks to 3 years of age, you're going to have a hyper dog (unless you're blessed with an extremely mellow dog). That goes for ANY retriever or pointer.

If you're interested in a started/trained dog, check out http://www.working-retriever.com/ads/started.html

Hehe... $1000 for a dog just plain isn't going to happen, and $5000 for a dog is just silly unless you've got money to burn or the dog has a good chance of making that much plus some in field trials and stud fees. I have no interest in a field trial dog and don't really care about any sheet of paper that tells me about 10 generations of the dog's family. I want a dog that will be a decent hunting dog and a good pet for my family. If he breaks point every now and then (if a pointer) or flushes a bird or two out of range (if a flusher), it's not the end of the world and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Thanks for the advice, but I've got about as much interest in a $1000+ dog as I do in a $20,000+ shotgun. I wouldn't ever wrestle or play rough with a dog like that because I'd be afraid I'd chip one his toenails, and I wouldn't ever hunt with a shotgun like that because I'd be afraid I'd get a microscopic scratch on it. I don't mean any offense to any of you who would choose such things. I just have a different set of priorities and values.

Thanks for the chuckle just the same, though.

You might want to start looking for a mutt then. A Lab with any kind of bloodlines will start at about $500 and go up from there.

You could consider rescue orgs. The dogs are pretty much free.

Take a look at Weimaraner-- they need a big yard and are a little high energy. They are known to point/retrieve.

I think the leading candidates for the job of my hunting dog/family pet are English springer spaniel or Lab, but a Brittany could sneak in and steal the job away, too.

I've always liked Weimaraners and they are truly beautiful dogs (those eyes just steal my heart), but the only ones I've known were seriously neurotic if they didn't get hours of attention just about every day, not to mention jealous of anything, or anyone else, who got attention that they wanted, including children. They are supposed to be toward the top end of canine intelligence, though, so they are easier to train and hold onto the training better. I can't imagine taking one out in a duck blind in a Washington winter, though. The first time I told him to retrieve, he'd start in on a 2-hour speech about how it wasn't in his best interest in the long run to enter that cold water and that I better go get the duck myself if I wanted it so bad.

Even so, I would truly love to be so blessed as to see this when I went pheasant hunting.

Actually, of all the breeds you're considering, weims are the lowest on the intelligence scale; with labs at the top. Still not a bad rank, at 21 out of 80 breeds. Not many people hunt with them anymore probably due to their personality and not enough field breeders.

Maybe the ones I've been around just had obsessive owners who ended up training them well. One of the Weimeraners named Orwell lived with a buddy in a rental house without a doggy door. Tom taught him to open the door for himself (normal round doorknob, no handles) and even paw the deadbolt until it flipped down and unlocked. It was cool to tell him to go get the paper off the porch and watch him do that stuff. Of course, Orwell figured out how to open the fridge, too, and Tom didn't think that was nearly as funny as I did. It only took me a couple minutes to teach him that while Tom was in the shower, too.

Ok.. after all the comments here, on other forums, and from my friends, let me ask the question again, hopefully in a way that's easier to answer. Somehow, the image of sitting in or around water in January freezing my nether regions off waiting on ducks to come in doesn't sound like nearly as much fun as chasing a dog around while it points at pheasants and such, so I'm probably going to hunt upland birds 90% of the time the dog hunts with me. With that in mind, what would you advise would be the best breed for that mix of hunting (include ease of training and retention of training) and being a good family pet? If I go with a non-Lab (it's pretty much the only retriever I'm considering), how much help is a good neoprene vest or something like it for keeping a dog warm while duck hunting?

A Springer would be an excellent choice, if you will be hunting upland birds 90% of the time. Labs are great dogs, but for upland birds I think the Springers will have the advantage, plus the smaller size makes them a little easier to have in the house and to transport. You might also want to consider a German Wirehair Pointer. They have the type of hair needed for waterfowl retrieving, and you will still get to shoot roosters over points like the weimaraner in the picture.

I think I've decided what I want to get. And the winner is..


A BRITTANY!

Well.. maybe..

It's got the right size, temperament, intelligence, and the dang thing will point if I train it right. It was neck-and-neck with the English springer and the Brittany, with the pointing pushing the Brittany out in front by a nose (heh.. punny, eh?) at the finish line. So how do I go about getting a dog that will be a good hunter (assuming I do my job) without paying a fortune? I don't care much about pedigrees and field trial champ bloodlines. I just want a good hunter and pet.

No, no, no, Brits are generally hyper....(my experience)
CWU -- Where did you get your dog intelligence scale information?

I've had 3 labs, 2 beagles, 2 airdales, 1 GWP.
The Labs and Airdales were H.S. grads at best. The Beagles 8th grade dropouts. :p
The GWP a Rhodes Scholar!!

What H-Ape said.. There is a breeder, trainer, waterfoul guide in Acme.. He uses his curly haired GWP's on the duck hunts..

Doesn't sound like you are going to hunt the zero temp. weather..

I might agree about the Brittany being hyper.
My friend has a 2 yr old Brit,and he just about bounces off the walls when he's inside. I don't know if its because he's still young,a Brit,or both. Maybe verify with a vet,before you commit.

Price has only been mentioned a few times here and it was just for a quality dog, or at least quality bloodlines.
The initial cost is so minor compared to the money you will spend over that dogs lifetime. Wait until your dog runs into a fence, or sticks a stick into its chest, you will then find out what it costs to have a dog. I don't mind saying I am well over 12,000 in the last two years and lookling at 5,000 more in the next month for a new hip for my dog.
Even without anything major happening, vet bills for regular care and the occasional accident will add up. And for proper care of a companion these things are a must.

The intelligence scale is from the book Intelligence of Dogs. The list is available online- http://www.petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html

GWP's are definately not for everyone. They're one person dogs and, IMO, not the best family dogs since most do not get along with cats or any other small animals. And, although not in my experience, I've read in Gun Dog and the Pointing Dog Journal that aggression can be a major problem.

A brittany would be my pick for a pointing breed who is also outstanding in the home. I've liked all the brits I've ever hunted with and will probably get one myself in a few years.

Go with a Field style lab, Not the Bulky english style show dog, There indurance is much lower. I have a son out of Rebel the top running Yellow male the last three years until forced to retire from an njury. When he was bred to a field champ daughter of Mr. Independance. She also carries a Master Pointing Retriever title, Mine does not point but has the energy of a pointer but coupled with the labs ability to turn it off and be very calm in the Duck blind or livingroom. This is a good al around style to look for, And I have had a few good running field dogs. I also just got on the breeding list for a Wiem pup out of the two top wiems running in the country for the last two years. For class and a truely outstanding upland dog, They can't be beat. But you must do your research. And there are still good wiems out there, But they don't come cheap. But either does a trip to the Dakots's or Havre Mt or Eastern Wa for that matter. So why skimp on the workhorse that will be beating the bush for the next 10 years, 500-1000 bird trips sure beat almost saw enough to get a limit. All around = Lab

I'm pretty set on a Brittany now, and I'm not really interested in getting a dog from top field trial stock. Not at all, as a matter of fact. I want a pointing dog, and one that hunts at the leisurely pace that I do. I'm not in a race when I'm bird hunting, and don't intend to act like I am.

It's not about a race it's about having the avail to have your dog hunt hard all day long, or having the stamina to hunt multiple days, You will find that brit's are great lower cover dogs, But after the opener and the roostie's hit the catails or heavy brush. The brush pounders get the birds, My lab has followed a brace of brits after I watched them skurt the catails. And there owners pronounce that there are no birds in there, My reply was I didn't see them hit the brush, they responded with if there where birds in it they would have. Then as they sat and ate lunch and watched we went on to bag five and miss three, My buddies are poor shots. haha, Get a dog that will pound the brush after the opener. Brits are snippy little dogs, some with large attitudes. P.S. you will have your hands full with brits. Forget the books and ask someone that has been around multiple breeds for sometime. Go with a larger bodied pointer if it's a pointer you want, you will be rewarded for your choice for the next ten years or so..

This is going to be a family dog, as well as my hunting dog. I don't want a big dog in my house, either lab or big pointer. The choice ended up between a Brittany and an English springer. I want a pointer more than a flusher so the Brittany won.

After having owned Brittanies I can say a couple of things:
1. A good one will bust brush and will do anything it can to find birds. Great upland dogs.
2. I wouldn't even try to make one water retrieve ducks...I'm sure there are exceptions...
3. Field bred Brits and Springers too can range from "on the active side" to "ready to burst out of their own skin" interms of hyperness.
4. They are extremely sensitive, and you can blow their attitude by overly excessive punishment or even loud yelling.
5. If you condition them from an early age to being around kids and in the house most will do ok. Plan on lots of attention and training. (and brushing and clipping!)Every Brit I've know develops a pretty strong "one man attitude" as they mature.

You should be able to find one that will hunt for a reasonable price. East of the mountains seems to be a place to look for dogs that are hunted more than on the West side. Every one will say you are taking a chance by going through a private party...and they're right. But as long as you find a dog that's got good instincts and then train, train, train, I'm sure it will work out for you. Whatever you do, train the dog on live birds and in real cover as soon as it can handle it. A birdy Brit will want to run...you may need to seek training help, or at least a good manual. I wouldn't put a shock collar on a good Brit ever.

What kind of prices are you talking about here? I want a puppy, as young as can leave its mom so it will imprint with me and my family. I want a good hunting/family dog, and don't care all that much about generations of pedigrees and field trial champ parents. I do want a pup from proven hunters, though.

FYI Jason, for puppy age, it is fairly widely accepted that ~ 49 days old is the right time to go home with their new family.

Good luck.

PD

I got out of the 'loop' here. My P/C went 'teets' up, and I didn't get to rebut Cwee Cee gals assertions. My GWP is hard on small animals, ie., she terminates possums, rats, skunks, house cats that come in her yard. That's a plus not a minus.

Jason...... I don't know what happened but I didn't finish my post.. My wife tutors grade 1-6 kids and Emma (GWP) 'loves em". She's 66 pounds and a 'house dog'. Mt Lk. Terrace isn't very far from Martha Lake. If you want to meet Emma drop me (no that won't work my mail box is screwed up). post your phone #, or name and I can look in phone book.