The tribes are entitled to their half before reaching their own impact allowance. If you change the percentage of how many wild salmon or steelhead they encounter in their fishery, you run the risk of them not getting their half, which is what Carcassman was alluding to I believe.

P.S. In the entire run up to this initiative, all the misinformation on both sides of the debate (pro-initiative and the gillnetters), and all the "it'll do this!" and "it'll do that!", the most useful part so far is Kitzhaber saying that the economic benefits of sportfishing should be a, if not "the", driving factor in LCR management.

Exactly!

+ 1,000,000 etc..... etc...


Washington? .....your up to bat.

In other words if the tribes kill 1 ESA fish for every target fish, and non-tribal kills 1 ESA fish for every 20 target fish, and you need to keep a 50/50 balance in the target harvest, what's to stop the authorities from allocating 2/3 ESA allowance to the tribes and 1/3 to non-tribal?

I understand that's not fair, but I'm not sure what other alternatives there are for maintaining a 50/50 harvest split in that scenario.

From the other board....

First, we know that fewer ESA listed wild Spring Chinook salmon will die if IP-21 passes. Lower Columbia commercial fishermen do release wild Spring Chinook from their gill nets, but while stuck in the gill net these fish are easy pickings for seals and sea lions. Wild salmon taken by the seals and sea lions in gill nets are never counted against the very limited number of ESA listed fish that the gill nets are allowed to incidentally kill while attempting to harvest hatchery bred salmon. Changing to live capture seine netting will prevent this predation from happening.

Injuries from gill nets also cause disease leading to delayed mortality and reduce spawning success in Spring Chinook and other salmon species. Recent scientific study has found that up to 51% of salmon injured in gill nets are not expected not to reproduce successfully. If a wild salmon is released from a gill net, but can't spawn successfully due to an injury or disease as a result being in a gill net, it should be considered the same as if it had died in the gill net. Live capture modified seine nets don’t cause the injuries to released fish that gill nets do.

Second, we also know that fewer wild Summer Chinook salmon will die if IP-21 passes. Summer Chinook are the remnants of the once great runs of salmon that swam all the way to Canada via the upper Columbia River before Grand Coulee Dam was built without fish ladders. Fisheries scientists recommend a selective commercial fishery for Summer Chinook, where the wild fish are released and only the hatchery bred fish are harvested, like we do for Spring Chinook. The problem is that warmer summer water temperatures make releasing the wild salmon impossible with gill nets. So instead, the commercial fishermen are simply allowed to kill the wild salmon along with the hatchery bred ones. If IP-21 passes commercial fishermen can successfully release these wild Summer Chinook salmon too.

Third, we know that fewer ESA listed wild Steelhead will die if IP-21 passes. Ten years ago, in 2002, gill nets fishing the lower Columbia captured 21,700 Steelhead during the spring salmon fishery. It is estimated that around 50% of those were ESA listed wild winter steelhead and it is probable that over 4000 of those wild Steelhead died. Those mortalities wouldn't have happened with a live capture seine net fishery. Wild Steelhead are in the Columbia twelve months out of the year and are encountered in every single gill net fishery. All non-Indian sales of Steelhead are prohibited, so they are all 'released' when caught in gill nets, and too often ‘released’ dead. Live capture seine netting would allow them to be released alive instead.

Fourth, we know that fewer wild Sockeye salmon will die if IP-21 passes. Sockeye are the smallest of all Columbia River salmon and also are headed for both the upper Columbia and the Snake River. Sockeye were the first of the Columbia River salmon to be listed as endangered. A year after Sockeye that listing in 1992, only one Sockeye salmon (dubbed Lonesome Larry) made it to its home spawning grounds at Redfish Lake in Idaho. Since that time things have improved somewhat, but wild Sockeye salmon retention in the lower Columbia River is only allowed in years when a relatively large number of these fish are returning. On the years when the run of Sockeye falls, retention is prohibited. 2012 was a good year for Sockeye, and gill nets caught several hundred Sockeye salmon in the Summer Chinook salmon fishery. By switching from gill nets to live capture seining, lower Columbia River commercial fishermen could successfully release wild Sockeye salmon on those bad years when all the Sockeye are needed on the spawning grounds.

Fifth, we know that fewer ESA listed wild Coho salmon will die if IP-21 passes. The lower Columbia River wild Coho salmon was listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act in 2005. Fisheries scientists recommend a selective fishery for lower river Coho, where the wild fish are released and only hatchery fish are retained. Yet the lower river commercial fishery with gill nets is a 100% kill fishery, even though all hatchery bred Coho are marked with a clipped adipose fin for easy identification. Because of this clipped fin, recreational anglers have been successfully releasing wild Coho for many years. Going to a live capture seine net fishery as proposed by IP-21 will allow commercial fishermen to release the wild Coho salmon too, and passing the measure will result in tens of thousands of fewer dead ESA listed wild Coho salmon each year.

Sixth, fewer ESA listed wild Chum salmon will die if IP-21 passes. All lower Columbia River Chum salmon retention is prohibited, and all but one of the lower river Chum populations are at 'high' or 'very high' risk of extinction. Young’s Bay near Astoria is a primary population of the few Chum salmon remaining, yet the current intensive gill net Coho harvest at that location overlaps with their return timing. Chum salmon are easy to identify and easy to differentiate from Coho Salmon. They would be easy to release alive if a live capture seine net fishery was in place instead of the current 100% kill gill net fishery.

Seventh, fewer ESA listed wild lower river fall Tule Chinook salmon will die. Chinook salmon returning in the fall to the lower Columbia River are known as Tule salmon. Although these Chinook are not marked with a fin clip, they are very easy to visually identify. They have a much larger adipose fin than other salmon, they often appear brown instead of silver, and Tule Chinook have a distinctive strong smell. With all these characteristics, wild ESA listed Tule salmon should be easy for commercial fishermen to identify and release. Since Tule Chinook in freshwater are generally considered undesirable for eating as compared to other stocks of Columbia River Chinook salmon returning to the area at the same time, and since Tule Chinook bring low prices from fish wholesalers, commercial fishermen participating in a live capture seine net fishery as proposed by IP-21 would likely willingly release them to increase their harvest of the more desirable types of fall bright Chinook salmon that are healthy stocks.

I don't know who wrote that, Francis, but whoever it is, if he wants to set himself out as some sort of sportfishing spokesman he needs to get himself actually educated on how LCR fisheries work. There's almost nothing in that long post that is factual.

There is a lot of fantasy, however.

Fish on...

Todd

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/08/gill-netting_ban_would_hurt_co.html


Wouldn't worry about money either I'm guessing someone will just run a bigger check across town in Vancouver to keep the ballot measure going. These people have already spent 25 million plus down here whats a few million more.

From the other board....

First, we know that fewer ESA listed wild Spring Chinook salmon will die if IP-21 passes. Lower Columbia commercial fishermen do release wild Spring Chinook from their gill nets, but while stuck in the gill net these fish are easy pickings for seals and sea lions. Wild salmon taken by the seals and sea lions in gill nets are never counted against the very limited number of ESA listed fish that the gill nets are allowed to incidentally kill while attempting to harvest hatchery bred salmon. Changing to live capture seine netting will prevent this predation from happening.

Injuries from gill nets also cause disease leading to delayed mortality and reduce spawning success in Spring Chinook and other salmon species. Recent scientific study has found that up to 51% of salmon injured in gill nets are not expected not to reproduce successfully. If a wild salmon is released from a gill net, but can't spawn successfully due to an injury or disease as a result being in a gill net, it should be considered the same as if it had died in the gill net. Live capture modified seine nets don’t cause the injuries to released fish that gill nets do.

Second, we also know that fewer wild Summer Chinook salmon will die if IP-21 passes. Summer Chinook are the remnants of the once great runs of salmon that swam all the way to Canada via the upper Columbia River before Grand Coulee Dam was built without fish ladders. Fisheries scientists recommend a selective commercial fishery for Summer Chinook, where the wild fish are released and only the hatchery bred fish are harvested, like we do for Spring Chinook. The problem is that warmer summer water temperatures make releasing the wild salmon impossible with gill nets. So instead, the commercial fishermen are simply allowed to kill the wild salmon along with the hatchery bred ones. If IP-21 passes commercial fishermen can successfully release these wild Summer Chinook salmon too.

Third, we know that fewer ESA listed wild Steelhead will die if IP-21 passes. Ten years ago, in 2002, gill nets fishing the lower Columbia captured 21,700 Steelhead during the spring salmon fishery. It is estimated that around 50% of those were ESA listed wild winter steelhead and it is probable that over 4000 of those wild Steelhead died. Those mortalities wouldn't have happened with a live capture seine net fishery. Wild Steelhead are in the Columbia twelve months out of the year and are encountered in every single gill net fishery. All non-Indian sales of Steelhead are prohibited, so they are all 'released' when caught in gill nets, and too often ‘released’ dead. Live capture seine netting would allow them to be released alive instead.

Fourth, we know that fewer wild Sockeye salmon will die if IP-21 passes. Sockeye are the smallest of all Columbia River salmon and also are headed for both the upper Columbia and the Snake River. Sockeye were the first of the Columbia River salmon to be listed as endangered. A year after Sockeye that listing in 1992, only one Sockeye salmon (dubbed Lonesome Larry) made it to its home spawning grounds at Redfish Lake in Idaho. Since that time things have improved somewhat, but wild Sockeye salmon retention in the lower Columbia River is only allowed in years when a relatively large number of these fish are returning. On the years when the run of Sockeye falls, retention is prohibited. 2012 was a good year for Sockeye, and gill nets caught several hundred Sockeye salmon in the Summer Chinook salmon fishery. By switching from gill nets to live capture seining, lower Columbia River commercial fishermen could successfully release wild Sockeye salmon on those bad years when all the Sockeye are needed on the spawning grounds.

Fifth, we know that fewer ESA listed wild Coho salmon will die if IP-21 passes. The lower Columbia River wild Coho salmon was listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act in 2005. Fisheries scientists recommend a selective fishery for lower river Coho, where the wild fish are released and only hatchery fish are retained. Yet the lower river commercial fishery with gill nets is a 100% kill fishery, even though all hatchery bred Coho are marked with a clipped adipose fin for easy identification. Because of this clipped fin, recreational anglers have been successfully releasing wild Coho for many years. Going to a live capture seine net fishery as proposed by IP-21 will allow commercial fishermen to release the wild Coho salmon too, and passing the measure will result in tens of thousands of fewer dead ESA listed wild Coho salmon each year.

Sixth, fewer ESA listed wild Chum salmon will die if IP-21 passes. All lower Columbia River Chum salmon retention is prohibited, and all but one of the lower river Chum populations are at 'high' or 'very high' risk of extinction. Young’s Bay near Astoria is a primary population of the few Chum salmon remaining, yet the current intensive gill net Coho harvest at that location overlaps with their return timing. Chum salmon are easy to identify and easy to differentiate from Coho Salmon. They would be easy to release alive if a live capture seine net fishery was in place instead of the current 100% kill gill net fishery.

Seventh, fewer ESA listed wild lower river fall Tule Chinook salmon will die. Chinook salmon returning in the fall to the lower Columbia River are known as Tule salmon. Although these Chinook are not marked with a fin clip, they are very easy to visually identify. They have a much larger adipose fin than other salmon, they often appear brown instead of silver, and Tule Chinook have a distinctive strong smell. With all these characteristics, wild ESA listed Tule salmon should be easy for commercial fishermen to identify and release. Since Tule Chinook in freshwater are generally considered undesirable for eating as compared to other stocks of Columbia River Chinook salmon returning to the area at the same time, and since Tule Chinook bring low prices from fish wholesalers, commercial fishermen participating in a live capture seine net fishery as proposed by IP-21 would likely willingly release them to increase their harvest of the more desirable types of fall bright Chinook salmon that are healthy stocks.

>>>>

Oh, and he forgot to mention the benefits for a crashing sturgeon population.