Is it possible to have so much pressure on a river that it get cleaned out ? I know there are always new fishing moving up river but with the pressure on the Nooch is it possible ?

I don't think so. There is so much water and the fish are constantly moving up and down in the system that it could seem fished out though, if you are only fishing a stretch like crossover to black creek and the bulk of the fish are sitting in the upper stretch

If you include netting as fishing then yes.

I definitely think fishing and netting could make it seem like a river is fished out! I have been on rivers on days they were netting it and fishing was very slow! Then, hit it again a day or two after netting has stopped and it was a night and day difference!

But, I have also had crappy days when there were no nets and not many people... Either way, a day on the river beats working! LOL

The highest stock handle percentage I know of is 20% on Tillamook Basin fall chinook, and this is hook and line, not commercial.
And the commercial exploitation is 40%.

Well I can tell you the following:

This is from the trap Report 2/9/13.....

The trap was "emptied on 2/7/2013"...In the trap was:

Silvers ...... 4, hauled above trap

Hatchery steelhead... 91, of those, 62 went above the trap and 29 were taken to the hatchery.

Wild steelhead to the trap........ for the season..... 2...these 2 wild were taken to the hatchery.

Note..... above trap can mean either of the following:

1. Placed between trap and the dam

2. Placed above the dam, in the lake

This Nooch sounds like a good place...lots of people talking about it...............

Sure it is if you drift gillnets!!!

how do you get dere from tacoma? sound like good place

Why are you using a false proxy?

DrifterWa, Those totals seem low for season counts, Are both the Hatchery and wild season totals, I know of one day in Jan that they had many Silvers, and 61 Seelhead, and was told it was aout 50% hachery 50% wild on the Steelhead. By the person that runs Satsop camp and helps empty the trap at times... I was suprised to see so many silvers for that late stage, and so many Wilds for that early stage. I also wonder if the Wilds are spawning in the lower system and not going to the trap. My boats touch rate is 42% Wild and 58% hatchery with 13% of the wild being spawners, And our touch rate is on pace with last years for this time frame. even with the lower waters.... But it does worry me on this river is that out touch rate for Wilds over hatchery on other rivers within the system, Favors the Wild almost 2 to 1. With comparable catche numbers. Maybe with all the pressure and repeated handling of the Wilds on the Nooch over the last 10 years, The handling/hook mortality are taking there toll. They need to bring the Cowlitz numbers back up to where they were 20 years ago, to help take pressure off the other rivers, like it use to.

On some of the Puget Sound rivers during the 1980s when there were creel surveys there is some pretty good info on what portion of the hatchery run the sport anglers caught.

Of the fish that got by the "nets" the recreational fishery over a season often caught 2/3 of the fish in the river(at times as high as 90%). While an individual angler is not all the effective in catch the fish as group it can be pretty shocking on effective we can be.

Can the river be fished out? No but we can signficantly reduce the overall abundance but more importantly fishing pressure can quickly remove a high percentage of the population of the best biters and most accessible fish.

BTW -For a variety of reason on the whole in-river steelhead fisheries are much more effective than in-river salmon fisheries.

Curt

Met'lheadMatt :):

Trap report Total, as of 2/9/2013......Tacoma Public Power, does the reports...This year the 1st trip was done on 10/24/2012.

There have been 24 trips....the total fish removed from the trap are as follows:

Coho.........849
Jacks......... 11
Kings......... 17

SH Hatchery 95.......65 above trap and 30 to hatchery
SH Wild 2.......taken to hatchery.

Wild numbers on this fine river, have continued to decline. Winter Steelhead numbers are down. The problems are many, more pressure on this river, gill netting 3 - 5 days a week December thru March/April, mitigation monies not being spent for Coho and Steelhead.

Region 6 spends 1000's of hours on Salmon things.....hatchery, North of Falcon, divide the pie between tribes, Non tribal, and sports.

No meetings, that I'm aware of, between WDFW and the general public to talk about steelhead......That is a problem !!!!!!!!!!

The nooch has had it's momments this year......but way to much pressure on the fish.Good luck,
SZ

I don't think it is possible to fish-out a river, but the easy to catch fish (my favorite ones) get scooped up pretty quickly.

I will always be confounded by steelhead movements. At least in my neck of the woods, every time you think you have something dialed, it doesn't pan out, and then you take some off chance 3 hour trip when conditions are poor: Every rock has a steelhead hiding on it that can't wait to chase your crappy eggs across the river while you try to get your beer open.

While that would certainly help, the overcrowding issues on the Nooch range well beyond the Cowlitz. You've also got most of the traditional PS winter steelhead rivers now closed months earlier than they used to be so all those fish-starved guys need a quick, easy place to access. Having a major freeway going right up to the doorstep of the river makes it a no-brainer for many.

Until many of those PS rivers re-open(and how soon do you honestly believe THAT'S going to happen) the Nooch crowding problem will continue as is....maybe worse in the years ahead if you can envision that.

A final thought....I think some of the crowding problem can also be blamed on HSRG reforms years ago. That re-structured, reduced or outright did away with plants in many smaller, "local" fisheries. When the scheme was proposed, I recall the media and other groups saying "this isn't gonna be good for opportunity".

Seems they were right.

I have very little to add to this, well said. The drift boat masses congregate on the Nooch because of a lack of opportunity elsewhere closer to the Metro area. It is the Chehalis Basin's beloved steelhead river, there's a freeway, plenty of media on it, an easy row...it'll get busy.