a thought that I learned while being impressed with the ability for a rod to detect vocal chord vibrations. The rod never has contact with the fish or it's mouth. the part the softens or dulls the bite has always been the line that telegraphs the bite. meaning a $500 rod will always be handicapped be the line running through it.

learning the bite is still a ongoing self taught practice to detect. this is where rod manufacture's make their money selling expensive rods. they will have you believe that their rod takes all the learning curve away. instant fishing success will now be given to you. cue in cash register sound here!

I've witnessed on several occasions a guy float fishing and saw the guy's bobber obviously detect the bite and dip under then rise again. only to see the guy react to it with nothing. I once asked the guy why he didn't set? the guy replied "i thought it was the bottom"....

my point being here is no matter the high expense invested on the very best, it is still limited to the operator!

As the great and powerful Os said, if you wait until you feel the bite through the rod you will never feel the majority of bites. I would have to say almost all the talented fishermen I know watch the float or where the line enters the water for movement.

I agree Jerry
Float fishing is site fishing. I hooked fish on just a wiggle of the float, but you ain't feelin the bite.....Os

LOL, this is like saying " all the talented TV watchers I know watch the TV" well duh.

I have to admit that I love my Beulah Platinum Spey rod an awful lot. It was given to me by my "fishing sensei" when he first started teaching me to cast. Would I pay $675 for a new one? No. But it casts incredibly well!

I met a guy on the river one time who proclaimed to me he was so good he could detect a gill flare from a steelhead as his fly swung through the water. I just walked away shaking my head...

Sub 200$ for me on non fly rods. Sub 600$ for me on fly rods because the cast requires more from the rod and thus rod needs more design by rod makers.



Sounds like the lexicon of fly fishing winter steelhead. Pick the simplest yet least effective method of catching steelhead, over think it to the extreme, and make it exceedingly complex. Which leads to all kinds of strange analysis and myths.

Many of us have caught lots of steelhead, for decades...and I'm sure my catch rates wouldn't go down appreciably if I went into Wal-Mart and bought the first 7'6" combo spinning rod/reel for $29.00...but it is far more enjoyable to fish with nice gear, and you should spend whatever you want on it.

I catch just as many fish on my custom built bare bones rods made from imported blanks as I do on my $400 factory built rods...but those expensive rods are sure a pleasure to fish with, and after steelhead fishing my whole life there are a lot of things I love about it that don't just include landing fish...most things, actually.

Do you need an expensive rod? No, of course not...you don't need a rod at all. A homemade gillnet, or a chunk of dynamite will catch more fish, and a lot more easily...but just because it works doesn't mean it's fun.

Fish on...

Todd

Pretty darn good summary there and I will agree fully.

I've always viewed rods as tools and the better a tool is at its job, the more I enjoy using it and the more I am willing to pay for it.

Sure you can get most fix-it jobs done with a roll of duct tape and a pair of vice grips, but having a more precise tool sure makes a difference in both the quality of the end result and enjoyment of the process. Generally the more we use a tool and the more precise it's application needs to be, the more we appreciate having good tool.

These days price is no indicator of quality in the world of fishin poles. Good ones can come cheap and crap models ca. Come with a hefty price tag.

Are the good ones worth it? Well that depends.

No.

I think this question can also be answered by answering this question...

Would you rather drive whatever rig you are driving now, or a red 1987 Datsun pickup with a blue door, yellow tailgate held on by baling wire, and a cracked windshield?

That car will probably get you to work and back as well as your current rig, and probably with better gas mileage, and insurance that's a damn sight cheaper.

Same as a twenty year old CRT television, ten year old computer, and cheap canned food...they will all do the job just as well as you need them to in order to get by...but something tells me most of you would rather not use any of those if you have a choice.

Fish on...

Todd

todd your reasoning is useless. We're not talking about yard sale rods that have been banged around for ten years.

the OP is based on whether the off the rack $500 is truly a superior rod. over the rack rod that is considerably cheaper.

Then how about buying a $12K Kia to drive to work instead of driving around in a big $40K pickup truck?

The point is that there are always cheaper ways to get it done just as well as the expensive ways...and the fact that it is cheaper does not make it more enjoyable, or better, it just makes it a cheaper way to get it done.

Some folks revel in the idea that they can do something cheaper, no matter what it is...and I can see why they would feel that way.

Some folks don't care what anything costs...they will always buy the most expensive thing they can get, assuming it is better just because it costs more.

I think the answer is more nuanced than that...the answer is to think about why you would or would not buy an expensive rod, and whether or not that reason is worth the extra money to you. If it is, then do it...if it's not, then don't.

Fish on...

Todd

" or a red 1987 Datsun pickup with a blue door, yellow tailgate held on by baling wire, and a cracked windshield?"

no chunk he described a beat up rig.

instead of sucking some todd @ss fume. realize that 90% of all steelheaders buy into the high price brands to show a level status amongst their peers while fishing. a SST / shimano rod is not going to handicap anyone.

Rapid Robert says that the shimano rods are every bit as sensitive to the g loomises. i'll take a very seasoned guides opinion over todd's opinion any day.

Todd's comparison is flawed because he describes an inexpensive vehicle that is a piece of junk because it's old and in poor repair. There are brand new rods in the $100 to $200 range that in a blind casting test he would be hard pressed to differentiate from $700 rods. That is a comparison that is more in line with the spirit of this thread.

Sg

Todd's rational does make sense to me. My wife keeps buying these stupid shoes called Gucci at about $500 a pop. I can't for the life of me, understand someone spending $500 for a pair of, what basically look like sandals, just because they are called Gucci! But then again she say's the same thing about my $700 waders, which we all know is absolutely necessary....

First I want to know why Todd is making fun of my truck!
OK, mine is a Toyota but too many similarities to let it pass.

Truth is I am one of those people who takes satisfaction in not buying Uber stuff and finding value goods that perform - here value is defined as Cost/Performance not absolute price.

Would definitely spend more/purchase higher up the ladder in a relative sense, for a fly rod because its function is a much bigger part of the day and experience.

But for gear rods not so much. I have some GL3's that I bought when they were a new thing - $325 in the mid 90's, so that might have been Uber at the time. Have never felt that I needed something more than those for performance. Recent purchases have been sub $100 - pair of Berkley/buzz ramsey plug rods that I think are fine (not awesome).

For me, high end rods are not very attractive because I have a history of being hard on rods - and not in a good way. I have probably broken 8 or 9 rods over the years and only one was what I considered a warranty issue suffered while actively fishing. Car door, tailgate, anchor, fall.... While I have personal rituals and rules to manage some of these, and have had only one such event in the last 15 years (2 months ago), it would give me pause personally.

In some ways I think Todd has the right of it - does someone who actually bought a $600 rod regret buying it? And that is a little bit different than those of us who have not saying we would not - even if you have fished with someone else's. That is not to say that you might not find a high end rod that performs so badly that you are sure you would never buy it or feel OK with it if you had bought it - but the OP question,to me, was "is incremental performance worth that kind of money?" - Not "would you buy a crappy expensive rod?" although from some of the comments it would seem such an animal does exist.

I think that used to be a lot more true than it is now...but it's still more true than not.

It definitely used to be that lower end rods came with one year, or no warranties, and more expensive rods had a couple of replacements built into the price with lifetime warranties.

When it comes to the Lamiglas rods I've been using for a long, long time...well, let's just say they don't make much money off of me since I am so hard on my gear and they have the best return/replace program in the market, bar none. You guys who buy one and never break it are definitely subsidizing me

That being said, I have a couple of Berkeley rods that I use for jigging for lingcod and for throwing swimbaits for tuna, and they cost about $80 a pop and have lifetime warranties...and if I only had $100 to spend on a steelhead rod I'd probably get another Berkeley rod.

Fish on...

Todd

Here is the thing about the warranties - Every rod I have broken has been a Lamiglas (except for the last one that was a $45 Okuma). Sure they have lifetime warranties, but I feel like it is BS to make my F-ups their problem - especially when back in the day they would provide a new tip section or entire rod for like $30.

I suspect that if we all limited our claims to manufacture defect, you might be able to get a "$500" for $300 or so. But it is not that big a thing to me and I am not hung up on how everyone else deals with warranty claims- I just know myself well enough to appreciate that if F-ups are free I make more of them.

Then again, if a "500" rod is replaced by the manufacturer once on average - turns out it is a $250 rod.... (I have no idea what the average replacement rate is - just an example..)

It is all about marketing and who will fall for the "sales pitch" for an expensive rod.
If you guys knew just how much carbon fiber goes into a high end rod vs a low end rod AND knew what these companies pay for that high modulus Carbon Fiber prepreg, you would not buy them.
The mark up is ridiculous.