There was an excellent article by a black, ex prosecutor, now at GTU. He chose law to change it, sorta like I suggested above, but found that in reality he was so dependent on cops to do his job that it corrupted him. He opines that all cop shootings should go to a different jurisdiction as it is in the best interest of the prosecutor to lead the Grand Jury to never press charges against the cops. So maybe that would be a good start.

I believe it was a NYT article.

In WA a different jurisdiction handles it.

Whether or not it is reasonable depends on the facts of the case weighed against the four primary Graham factors described above as well as the "totality of the circumstances." In other words what is reasonable depends. The force used is weighed against the threat that it is used to counter.

Few would probably argue that choking a guy with a gun who is shooting up a school full of kids is unreasonable right? Stop him by any means necessary. Likewise choking a 90 year old person in a wheel chair who is passively resisting and poses no threat would never be deemed reasonable. Same use of force but applied in very different circumstances.

The question is was this level or manner of force reasonable in the context which it was applied.

Again getting back to the legal definition of deadly force, deadly force is that which is LIKELY to cause serious injury, or death. Serious injury or death is POSSIBLE even in very benign circumstances, which is why these words have been chosen carefully.

I have never heard of a case of intentional or unintentional choking deaths secondary to a law enforcement action. I doubt seriously that NYPD's policy had anything to do with a long string of deaths or serious injuries. Not saying they haven't happened, but rather that it is certainly not a common thing.

My perspective and opinion is that choking someone in this manner for the period of time shown is not likely to cause serious injury or death. As an EMT and person who has experienced both sides of such fights I feel relatively qualified to make that assessment and certainly invite informed opinions to the contrary.

Choking kills you by preventing the passage of oxygen from your blood to vital organs, namely the brain which obviously controls the heart. We all die of heart attacks. With continuous disruption of O2 and blood flow to the brain it typically takes several minutes, three or more for brain tissue to be compromised to the point that death or serious (lasting) injury is likely.

Another way that choking can kill you is if your airway and blood vessels in the neck suffer trauma to the point of not being able to do their jobs of getting air into your blood and blood into your brain. This requires a fairly massive amount of trauma as the body is pretty resilient. It takes a greater period of time for the needed O2 deprivation to occur as the system is still functioning, just not adequately.

None of these factors were present in the video or in the autopsy and analysis after the fact.

In trying to be objective, my opinion is that the whole event was more than this fellow's poor health could handle and the struggle as a whole did him in. That may seem a gross over simplification, but that is my opinion which has been formed with few real facts.

One could argue that given this fellow's physical condition it was likely that choking HIM for any period of time was likely to cause his death, but again no reasonable officer could have known of his preexisting conditions. In fact all physical/observable indicators would point to the opposite, that this very large human could probably endure some serious fighting before he would yield.

Thanks Coley

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This latest shooting isn't gonna help matters... just wait till the riots when they indict the black cop and acquit whitey...


New Jersey police shooting

BRIDGETON, N.J. (AP) — With the dashboard camera in their cruiser rolling, police pulled a Jaguar over for running a stop sign on a dark New Jersey night. But things suddenly turned tense when one of the officers warned his partner that he could see a gun in the glove compartment.

Screaming over and over "Don't you f---ing move!" and "Show me your hands!" at the man in the passenger seat, the officer reached into the car and appeared to remove a silver handgun.

Then, despite being warned repeatedly not to move, the passenger stepped out of the Jaguar, his hands raised about shoulder level.

The officers opened fire, killing him.

A gun is found and he gets out of the car walking towards the Officer.. dumb move.

I'm thinking it may be a good Idea to institute some written and roll playing tests on police interaction in order to get a drivers license, ID card or a welfare check...

Most departments do reality based training. These guys probably have done hundreds of stops and welfare checks. When a person exits a vehicle during a traffic stop, one is on high alert. Coupled with an involved firearm and a guy with a felonious record it wasn't going to end well.

He meant individuals should be taught how to deal with police officers, not the other way around.

He said get not give driver's license. The proper way to interact is to listen. Especially at gun point.

I may be misunderstanding... but i was hinting at requiring the general public to go thru testing on how to act if pulled over in order to get a license, ID, or welfare.

Maybe the passenger was deaf? Listening to rap and hip hop sh!t can do that to a person.

Ok my bad.

...In that case, he deserved what he got

kinda a Darwin award winner. it's a good.

I am working in the St Louis area this week and I felt compelled to drive through Ferguson today, It's sad all around, saw one of the burned down businesses and saw many others closed up and 'for lease' signs. The interactions with everybody around this part of the country are very friendly so there is hope for race relations in Ferguson. btw, Busch stadium is pretty damn cool looking, looks like a giant Minor League park.