Was browsing the WDFW site and saw the Chitteden Locks SALMON counts page. Do any Steelhead make it back to the Cedar, or are they extinct? Are their any counts even though a small handful return any more? Herschel and friends really did a job on them. Another sad story and know many that have great memories growing up Steelheading in that area.

Don't blame Herschel.
Put the blame where it is do.
Greed and those before us.

Dam it all!!!

According to WDFW's SCORE site the Cedar steelhead escapements took a dramatic down turn at the start of this century. Since 2007 the escapements have been less than 10 fish/year (from 0 to 8).

Some think that with the very poor marine survivals the last couple decades for the region's steelhead that the O.mykiss population of the Cedar is being dominated by fluvial (river run) and ad fluvial (lake run) life histories rather than the anadromous life history. The big question will if (when?) marine survivals improve how quickly the anadromous life history becomes established.

Curt

An alternative explanation is that the application of minimum fall flows in the Cedar created conditions that favor resident mykiss. Studies show that resident and anadromous mykiss are often the same fish and the decision to be one or the other is in response to environmental conditions.

I think that the Lake Washington/Cedar River ecologically favors the resident component. And as long as that continues, steelhead restoration in the Cedar is a lost cause.

if they would have killed off the poachers that were always up MV highway when the river was closed we probably wouldnt have this issue right now....

RnG, heres some reading, and counts...


http://www.seattle.gov/Util/EnvironmentC...Trout/index.htm

http://www.seattle.gov/Util/EnvironmentC...Trout/index.htm

CM -

A quick review of the fall low flows on the Cedar found that the fall low flows have remained about the same for the last century.

What we are seeing on the Cedar with the dominate river/lake run life histories is exactly what one would expect from the literature. With the current poor marine environment it is hardly a surprise that the anadromous life history appears recently to have been experiencing negative selectivity.

Curt

I am happy to say that I see a decent amount of coho every week floating down from landsburg, had about 40 today from there down to the Lions park.
I buzz every hole and chunk of holding water, I have seen several trout in the 20" range pushing out of the tailouts but no steelhead yet..
I hope I am lucky enough to see one before this project wraps up

the Cedar used to have 30 pound fish....

Some of those steelhead that went through the locks were bound for the Sammamish slough, back in the late 60's early 70's Issaquah hatchery had a program for returning steelhead, I believe it was volunteer and the fish were not marked,

Curt

I somewhat misspoke about the flows. In looking at Cedar/Nisqually/other regulated rivers it looks like when a minimum flow was established (and WDFW could not tell me when it happened) there was a change in the relationship between reservoir inflow and release. Essentially, the minimum flow resulted in "more" water being released (looking at the fall salmon spawning flows) since inflow in summer/fall is declining. Releases are cooler water, so looking at the temps would be helpful, too. And, spawning salmon numbers in the Cedar have crashed.

I realize, too, that based on our experiences we see the problems associated with steelhead differently. I see that the freshwater environment exerts a huge control while your experience points to marine problems.

The truth probably lies in the middle, with both exerting a huge influence.

I recall going down to the locks in the late 70's and early 80's and watching the old timers plunk with plugs. Saw lots of nice fish caught.
The sea lions may not have been the entire cause of the collapse, but they certainly did their part. I saw lots of fish getting chowed.
SF

The Cedar {Black River} and the White River use to go into the Green until they were diverted. Mayby the decline started back then?

And before that the White went down South Prairie Creek. The history of WA's rivers, especially those that drain the west slope of the Cascades have an interesting history of moving between what we now "know" as their watersheds. Volcanoes have really moved the rivers around, even in the last 15,000 years as the glaciers retreated.

The White and the Cedar were moved by man. In fact the White was moved a few times by man. King county won that battle. Can you imagine how the fishing was in the lower Green! At one time the White had a good run of Springers among the other salmon.

"RETROPERISTALSIS"....is the reverse of the involuntary smooth muscle contractions of peristalsis. It usually occurs as a precursor to vomiting.

Had to look that one up.

Cut my teeth on the cedar growing up in Renton. Very,very sad we don't have a run anymore. Good luck,

SZ

The White was locked in place by man. It regularly switched prior to settlement. Back in the late 70s there were still supposed to be a few springers in the Cedar. Saw one at the locks.

I have wondered why, since the White and Green were in the same watershed until recently, that there is not a springer program at Howard Hansen. Put the effort into springers on the Green.

why? so we cant fish for them and the tribe can net them? because thats exactly what goes on with the fall Kings....

Except for all those Fall Chinook taken as black mouth and in ocean fisheries. It id 50:50 for all harvestable in WA waters, not 50:50 in each location.

If a springer program was established, the NI would have the opportunity for 50% of them. Unless WDFW decides to give some away. But, given that (at least back in the 80s) PS springers get taken in the marine waters it is quite probable that the only fishery in the river would be tribal.

Carcassman,
While you mention the black mouth and ocean fishery, lets not forget the tribal fisheries off the cost and those taken by both commercial and tribal fisheries as by catch, along with subsistence fisheries by the tribes. Overall its gets fairly confusing when trying to figure out exactly who gets what. I feel the numbers are a bit skewed in the tribes favor since we are all limited by mainly by impacts and I suspect the tribes have a much higher impact on the green then we do. There are plenty of fish coming back, but we can not fish on them due to impacts. I wonder what the numbers available would look like if the tribe had to match impacts.