Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#978399 - 07/12/17 11:54 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The White River Spring Chinook were native to the Green. I don't see any real reason why a Springer Hatchery is not built at the base of Howard Hansen that does just springers and does it primarily for harvest. Eliminate all Fall Chinook hatchery production on the Green and let the wild stock recover without hatchery interference.

Top
#978406 - 07/12/17 01:56 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Although the Green isn't much for coho, their biology is spawn high and rear low. So, working for coho in the upper watershed and **cking over the lower watershed is a long-term loser for them. Since Chinook are mainstem spawners and rear for a while in the mainstem they are losing a lot by thinking the mid and upper river is where to have the Chinook.

Top
#978643 - 07/24/17 01:13 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
Maybe they are late, and there is a week for them to come in, but I think the numbers explain why there is little catching going on.

COWLITZ SALMON HATCHERY Cowlitz River Hatchery
Stock- H
Adult total 293 - - - - - - released 127 - - on-hand 166 07/19/17


COWLITZ SALMON HATCHERY Cowlitz River Hatchery
Stock- H
Adult total 3,302 - - - - - -Released 1,879 -mortality 9 on- hand 1,414 07/27/16

and for the last week
Last week, Tacoma Power employees recovered 293 spring Chinook adults, 10 spring Chinook jacks, 14 mini-jacks and 161 summer-run steelhead adults and one cutthroat trout in five days of operations at the Cowlitz Salmon Hatchery separator
During the past week, Tacoma Power employees released 130 spring Chinook adults and five spring Chinook jacks into the Cispus River near the mouth of Yellow Jacket Creek and they released 49 spring Chinook adults and two spring Chinook jacks at Franklin Bridge in Packwood

Appears its not because they are recycling so many- I think they are starting to see the picture and hold a few.

With 3000 coming in this week fishing should be incredible!!

Top
#978723 - 07/28/17 01:40 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
I'm disgusted. I have made 4 trips to the Kalama so far and hooked 2 fish. Plant numbers looked good at 122,162. This is the 4th year in arrow it has sucked. Talked to lots of guys I've seen for years, the same report from them. Not sure what has changed? Used to see bunches move through the lower river through July. I have spotted 1zies 2zies is all the last few years. The plant numbers haven't changed much from historic records if you believe in the smolt stocking reports. I think they are not raising and releasing what the printouts say they are, to save $$. Regardless something is different, and I don't believe in 4 years of bad survival conditions. The beginners hole doesn't produce anymore either. I wonder if they have changed the stocking locations? Something is up and it sucks.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

Top
#978727 - 07/28/17 03:13 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Somebody who is more familiar with the Kalama in particular but over the past decade or so there have been significant shifts in what stock is used. Kalama may have been using Skamania summers. These fish had a certain survival rate and a timing of return. WDFW may have shifted to a "local" broodstock. These will have a different response to culture and may have different return timing.

Another piece to consider is that under the "Mother Station" concept, where the broodstock all came from one location it is likely that those fish were exposed to significantly less fishing. Now, the local broodstock has to deal with the local fishery. What os spawned is what is not caught in active fisheries. The broodstock is selecting for fish that are less susceptible to biting. This should be a concern especially if the broodstock represents a very small fraction of the adult return.

Top
#978728 - 07/28/17 04:18 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
It seems that the more successful brood stock programs us or include sports caught fish. I know they did on the Sol Duc and I think many, if not most, of the Oregon programs do too.

Top
#978737 - 07/28/17 08:48 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
OLD FB Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 196
Loc: Stanwood WA
Originally Posted By: Krijack
It seems that the more successful brood stock programs us or include sports caught fish. I know they did on the Sol Duc and I think many, if not most, of the Oregon programs do too.


You are correct on the Oregon info you posted!

Top
#978739 - 07/28/17 09:45 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Carcassman]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Somebody who is more familiar with the Kalama in particular but over the past decade or so there have been significant shifts in what stock is used. Kalama may have been using Skamania summers. These fish had a certain survival rate and a timing of return. WDFW may have shifted to a "local" broodstock. These will have a different response to culture and may have different return timing.

Another piece to consider is that under the "Mother Station" concept, where the broodstock all came from one location it is likely that those fish were exposed to significantly less fishing. Now, the local broodstock has to deal with the local fishery. What os spawned is what is not caught in active fisheries. The broodstock is selecting for fish that are less susceptible to biting. This should be a concern especially if the broodstock represents a very small fraction of the adult return.


Forgive me for my inability to understand your comments. If the change to a broodstock means different timing, then I should be sight seeing the same amount of fish at a different time, even if they are non biters? I'm not seeing the same numbers of fish I used to period, through my participation up to the end of July. If your familiar with the Kalama, than you know that it is a sight fishery for those that have the skill to see them. They are not there, period. Are you saying the push could be in August or September when their is no water and hardly anyone around fishing? That doesn't sound like an effective hatchery catch and keep fishery to me? Why change a good thing? The numbers don't exist like they used to, bottom line. Summer run has always been my favorite and the WDFW has fd it up like everything else they change. I wonder why even have a hatchery program if you can't catch and keep? Is there a future? Help me here.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

Top
#978740 - 07/28/17 10:03 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: RUNnGUN]
Denham Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 120
Loc: Maple Valley
Perhaps you should try later on, when no one else is fishing... Might be pleasantly surprised whistle

Top
#978744 - 07/29/17 06:50 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: RUNnGUN]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Why change a "good thing"? Because the agency is required to consider the supposed ecological consequences of the hatchery. The goal of management now is "do no harm" to the wild stock. It is not "provide a fishery". A fishery is a secondary goal to wild fish protection.

As to the timing thing, I mostly worked with winters and had only some contacts with the Kalama but I recall that back in the 70s there was, even then, a big push of summers that arrived at K Falls in late summer/fall. If they were holding in the lower river or not, I don't know.

Also, have water temps in the Kalama changed? The Deschutes in Oregon, until the recent recovery plans were put in operation and warmed the lower river, used to host many over-summer stocks from Idaho. Summer in the cool Deschutes and then go home when the mainstem cooled.

Top
#978745 - 07/29/17 10:19 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
All of the Columbia River tributaries are experiencing very low summer steelhead returns this year, in the range of 15 to 20% of the recent 10-year average. I see no reason why the Kalama would be immune to this problem. The best "guesses" for this low survival are the legacy effects of the "blob" that out-migrating smolts experienced in the form of low nutrient, low forage supplies in near shore coastal ocean waters and the effects of the 2015 drought. While the number of hatchery smolts released has been reduced and even eliminated on some rivers, the Kalama does not appear to be on that list.

Top
#978929 - 08/08/17 02:52 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Salmo g.]
gooybob Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
In addition to its spring Chinook program, the Muckleshoot Tribe has been doing a wild steelhead broodstock program at the White River hatchery for a number of years now. Returns haven't been especially good, consistent with the survivals we observed with the acoustically tagged steelhead smolts from the Nisqually and Skokomish systems this spring.


It's difficult to get any accurate data when you're counting on honesty from the tribes. They have been consistently unreliable in their reporting and then of course there's the fact that they NET THE RIVERS. I've said this for a long time. There isn't a more devastating impact on all migratory fish in this state (hatchery or native) then gill nets strung across a river. When they "claim" they are fishing/netting for salmon (and getting far more than their share) they are killing other species as well. We will never have healthy rivers when you have a group of people that are allowed, unchecked, to net crucial passing areas of the rivers. Especially when a great deal of those netted fish are thrown away if they are males and the hens are slit open, eggs taken and then tossed as well. It's sad at best.

Top
#978934 - 08/08/17 04:06 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
It appears the Cowlitz is now running just under 5000 behind. This is comparing the report from 8/3/2017 to 8/10/2017 so numbers could go up a bit, but its looking real bad so far.

Top
#978948 - 08/09/17 09:09 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: gooybob]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Originally Posted By: gooybob
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
In addition to its spring Chinook program, the Muckleshoot Tribe has been doing a wild steelhead broodstock program at the White River hatchery for a number of years now. Returns haven't been especially good, consistent with the survivals we observed with the acoustically tagged steelhead smolts from the Nisqually and Skokomish systems this spring.


It's difficult to get any accurate data when you're counting on honesty from the tribes. They have been consistently unreliable in their reporting and then of course there's the fact that they NET THE RIVERS. I've said this for a long time. There isn't a more devastating impact on all migratory fish in this state (hatchery or native) then gill nets strung across a river. When they "claim" they are fishing/netting for salmon (and getting far more than their share) they are killing other species as well. We will never have healthy rivers when you have a group of people that are allowed, unchecked, to net crucial passing areas of the rivers. Especially when a great deal of those netted fish are thrown away if they are males and the hens are slit open, eggs taken and then tossed as well. It's sad at best.


I don't know about catch data, but I've never had any problem getting reliable data on White River hatchery production from Tribal staff at the hatchery or the Tribal office. There are problems with some gillnet fisheries, but year in and year out more Chinook and coho are taken in Canada than in the river gillnets. Lots more.

Out of sight, out of mind?

Top
#984245 - 01/26/18 08:10 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
Looks like the final total back to the hatchery for the Cowlitz summer run was 15% of last year, or just around 1540 compared to around 10600 last year. Anybody have an idea of what happened?

Top
#984370 - 01/27/18 04:39 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Here are the planting reports....just click on the year, will give you an idea of what WDFW supposedly plants...


https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/plants/steelhead/
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

Top
#984373 - 01/27/18 05:17 PM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
Originally Posted By: Krijack
Looks like the final total back to the hatchery for the Cowlitz summer run was 15% of last year, or just around 1540 compared to around 10600 last year. Anybody have an idea of what happened?


Obviously habitat declined by 9862%

Top
#984407 - 01/28/18 08:32 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
What year were all the "lost" Cowlitz steelhead expected to return?

Top
#984408 - 01/28/18 08:51 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: Carcassman]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 199
Loc: United States
The 2016 planting sheet in the link shows the reduced number of summer steelhead releases. The sheet says the bulk of the summer steelhead will return in 2018

Top
#984411 - 01/28/18 10:38 AM Re: Steelhead plantings. [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Numbqua Offline
Alevin

Registered: 10/29/15
Posts: 15

Based on your last comment, you're Clearly the moron!

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
3Gonads, herm
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 1083 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13520
eyeFISH 12766
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63773 Topics
645291 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |