#978399 - 07/12/17 11:54 AM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7431
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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The White River Spring Chinook were native to the Green. I don't see any real reason why a Springer Hatchery is not built at the base of Howard Hansen that does just springers and does it primarily for harvest. Eliminate all Fall Chinook hatchery production on the Green and let the wild stock recover without hatchery interference.
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#978406 - 07/12/17 01:56 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7431
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Although the Green isn't much for coho, their biology is spawn high and rear low. So, working for coho in the upper watershed and **cking over the lower watershed is a long-term loser for them. Since Chinook are mainstem spawners and rear for a while in the mainstem they are losing a lot by thinking the mid and upper river is where to have the Chinook.
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#978723 - 07/28/17 01:40 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1385
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I'm disgusted. I have made 4 trips to the Kalama so far and hooked 2 fish. Plant numbers looked good at 122,162. This is the 4th year in arrow it has sucked. Talked to lots of guys I've seen for years, the same report from them. Not sure what has changed? Used to see bunches move through the lower river through July. I have spotted 1zies 2zies is all the last few years. The plant numbers haven't changed much from historic records if you believe in the smolt stocking reports. I think they are not raising and releasing what the printouts say they are, to save $$. Regardless something is different, and I don't believe in 4 years of bad survival conditions. The beginners hole doesn't produce anymore either. I wonder if they have changed the stocking locations? Something is up and it sucks.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#978727 - 07/28/17 03:13 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7431
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Somebody who is more familiar with the Kalama in particular but over the past decade or so there have been significant shifts in what stock is used. Kalama may have been using Skamania summers. These fish had a certain survival rate and a timing of return. WDFW may have shifted to a "local" broodstock. These will have a different response to culture and may have different return timing.
Another piece to consider is that under the "Mother Station" concept, where the broodstock all came from one location it is likely that those fish were exposed to significantly less fishing. Now, the local broodstock has to deal with the local fishery. What os spawned is what is not caught in active fisheries. The broodstock is selecting for fish that are less susceptible to biting. This should be a concern especially if the broodstock represents a very small fraction of the adult return.
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#978737 - 07/28/17 08:48 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 196
Loc: Stanwood WA
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It seems that the more successful brood stock programs us or include sports caught fish. I know they did on the Sol Duc and I think many, if not most, of the Oregon programs do too. You are correct on the Oregon info you posted!
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#978739 - 07/28/17 09:45 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Carcassman]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1385
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Somebody who is more familiar with the Kalama in particular but over the past decade or so there have been significant shifts in what stock is used. Kalama may have been using Skamania summers. These fish had a certain survival rate and a timing of return. WDFW may have shifted to a "local" broodstock. These will have a different response to culture and may have different return timing.
Another piece to consider is that under the "Mother Station" concept, where the broodstock all came from one location it is likely that those fish were exposed to significantly less fishing. Now, the local broodstock has to deal with the local fishery. What os spawned is what is not caught in active fisheries. The broodstock is selecting for fish that are less susceptible to biting. This should be a concern especially if the broodstock represents a very small fraction of the adult return. Forgive me for my inability to understand your comments. If the change to a broodstock means different timing, then I should be sight seeing the same amount of fish at a different time, even if they are non biters? I'm not seeing the same numbers of fish I used to period, through my participation up to the end of July. If your familiar with the Kalama, than you know that it is a sight fishery for those that have the skill to see them. They are not there, period. Are you saying the push could be in August or September when their is no water and hardly anyone around fishing? That doesn't sound like an effective hatchery catch and keep fishery to me? Why change a good thing? The numbers don't exist like they used to, bottom line. Summer run has always been my favorite and the WDFW has fd it up like everything else they change. I wonder why even have a hatchery program if you can't catch and keep? Is there a future? Help me here.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#978744 - 07/29/17 06:50 AM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7431
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Why change a "good thing"? Because the agency is required to consider the supposed ecological consequences of the hatchery. The goal of management now is "do no harm" to the wild stock. It is not "provide a fishery". A fishery is a secondary goal to wild fish protection.
As to the timing thing, I mostly worked with winters and had only some contacts with the Kalama but I recall that back in the 70s there was, even then, a big push of summers that arrived at K Falls in late summer/fall. If they were holding in the lower river or not, I don't know.
Also, have water temps in the Kalama changed? The Deschutes in Oregon, until the recent recovery plans were put in operation and warmed the lower river, used to host many over-summer stocks from Idaho. Summer in the cool Deschutes and then go home when the mainstem cooled.
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#978929 - 08/08/17 02:52 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Salmo g.]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
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In addition to its spring Chinook program, the Muckleshoot Tribe has been doing a wild steelhead broodstock program at the White River hatchery for a number of years now. Returns haven't been especially good, consistent with the survivals we observed with the acoustically tagged steelhead smolts from the Nisqually and Skokomish systems this spring. It's difficult to get any accurate data when you're counting on honesty from the tribes. They have been consistently unreliable in their reporting and then of course there's the fact that they NET THE RIVERS. I've said this for a long time. There isn't a more devastating impact on all migratory fish in this state (hatchery or native) then gill nets strung across a river. When they "claim" they are fishing/netting for salmon (and getting far more than their share) they are killing other species as well. We will never have healthy rivers when you have a group of people that are allowed, unchecked, to net crucial passing areas of the rivers. Especially when a great deal of those netted fish are thrown away if they are males and the hens are slit open, eggs taken and then tossed as well. It's sad at best.
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#978948 - 08/09/17 09:09 AM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: gooybob]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
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In addition to its spring Chinook program, the Muckleshoot Tribe has been doing a wild steelhead broodstock program at the White River hatchery for a number of years now. Returns haven't been especially good, consistent with the survivals we observed with the acoustically tagged steelhead smolts from the Nisqually and Skokomish systems this spring. It's difficult to get any accurate data when you're counting on honesty from the tribes. They have been consistently unreliable in their reporting and then of course there's the fact that they NET THE RIVERS. I've said this for a long time. There isn't a more devastating impact on all migratory fish in this state (hatchery or native) then gill nets strung across a river. When they "claim" they are fishing/netting for salmon (and getting far more than their share) they are killing other species as well. We will never have healthy rivers when you have a group of people that are allowed, unchecked, to net crucial passing areas of the rivers. Especially when a great deal of those netted fish are thrown away if they are males and the hens are slit open, eggs taken and then tossed as well. It's sad at best. I don't know about catch data, but I've never had any problem getting reliable data on White River hatchery production from Tribal staff at the hatchery or the Tribal office. There are problems with some gillnet fisheries, but year in and year out more Chinook and coho are taken in Canada than in the river gillnets. Lots more. Out of sight, out of mind?
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#984370 - 01/27/18 04:39 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5078
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
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Here are the planting reports....just click on the year, will give you an idea of what WDFW supposedly plants... https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/plants/steelhead/
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"
"I thought growing older, would take longer"
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#984373 - 01/27/18 05:17 PM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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Spawner
Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
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Looks like the final total back to the hatchery for the Cowlitz summer run was 15% of last year, or just around 1540 compared to around 10600 last year. Anybody have an idea of what happened? Obviously habitat declined by 9862%
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#984407 - 01/28/18 08:32 AM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Krijack]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7431
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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What year were all the "lost" Cowlitz steelhead expected to return?
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#984408 - 01/28/18 08:51 AM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: Carcassman]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 199
Loc: United States
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The 2016 planting sheet in the link shows the reduced number of summer steelhead releases. The sheet says the bulk of the summer steelhead will return in 2018
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#984411 - 01/28/18 10:38 AM
Re: Steelhead plantings.
[Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
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Alevin
Registered: 10/29/15
Posts: 15
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Based on your last comment, you're Clearly the moron!
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