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#983363 - 01/09/18 06:48 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: _WW_]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1385
_WW_ spot on when he says hookups will be rare. Just glad to hear an "opportunity" may exist. Getting a tug makes all the effort worth while. Thanks to all you folks that put in the time to make this a reality. Not to be to optimistic, but maybe something to build on to expand around on some other PS rivers in my neck of the woods.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#983364 - 01/09/18 07:04 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: RUNnGUN]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
_WW_ spot on when he says hookups will be rare. Just glad to hear an "opportunity" may exist. Getting a tug makes all the effort worth while. Thanks to all you folks that put in the time to make this a reality. Not to be to optimistic, but maybe something to build on to expand around on some other PS rivers in my neck of the woods.


It's always been mainly about "Basin by basin management" It had to start somewhere and the Skagit is the best candidate. Legislators are in session, WDFW needs more money, send some emails!
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#983370 - 01/09/18 09:55 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
Jam Session,

The 10% incidental mortality rate came about by agreement between NMFS, WDFW, ODFW, and treaty tribes. I guess you could say it's more policy based than science based. They needed a number, and 10% is the number all were apparently willing to agree to. To those of us who participate in several types and areas of fishing 10% is likely too low for some and too high for others. But it's the number we're stuck with unless and until definitive studies for specific fisheries occur.

You seemed surprised that the treaty tribes will also be fishing under this plan. You don't think the co-managers would go to all this effort just so you and I and other recreational anglers can fish, do you? Besides, what a lot of folks seem to miss is the tribes have fished some in the past, they are and have been fishing for some steelhead recently, and they will continue to fish some for steelhead in the future, plan or no plan. This plan however puts some sideboards on everyone's fishing that is designed to ensure the conservation of Skagit wild steelhead. It's a good thing. Unwind and relax.

Sg

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#983384 - 01/09/18 02:17 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1270
Loc: WaRshington
I for one would be elated just to FISH my home waters again before I'm fvcking dead.
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

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#983404 - 01/09/18 08:41 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: Salmo g.]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Jam Session,

The 10% incidental mortality rate came about by agreement between NMFS, WDFW, ODFW, and treaty tribes. I guess you could say it's more policy based than science based. They needed a number, and 10% is the number all were apparently willing to agree to. To those of us who participate in several types and areas of fishing 10% is likely too low for some and too high for others. But it's the number we're stuck with unless and until definitive studies for specific fisheries occur.

Sg


It totally makes sense to use a made up 10% figure for all fisheries.

Totally.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#983406 - 01/09/18 09:01 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
ONE ( as in singular solitary ) hook point, barbless, baitless... should be a NO BRAINER.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#983407 - 01/09/18 09:04 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
Personally looking forward to an opportunity (or two) to huck a Skagit line into its namesake water.... been a MIGHTY long time.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#983414 - 01/10/18 05:30 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: eyeFISH]
Kinetic Kwik Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 761
Loc: sum x wet,sum x dry WA 4 Life
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
ONE ( as in singular solitary ) hook point, barbless, baitless... should be a NO BRAINER.


Speaking of no brainers

Originally Posted By: fishbadger
Don't underestimate how lethal it is to overplay a fish, net it, grab it a bunch of times and take tons of pictures of it!

fb


But, HEY!

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#983416 - 01/10/18 06:55 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1385
Might the C&R season include the Sauk?
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#983417 - 01/10/18 06:58 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7429
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
But then, science gets in the way. Single barbless and single barbed (at least flies) don't show a demonstrable difference in survival. It is easier to get a barbless hook out of a fish, friend, or myself but the data don't show a benefit to the fish.

There was a really interesting study, on ID trout, that used barbed flies, circle-hook bait, and treble-hooked lures. And, they studied survival over months rather than days. Best was flies, marginally worse was bait, and way worse was the trebles.

I believe that single barbless, lures only, is probably the socially and politically best way to go, coupled with mandatory non-removal from the water but there do exist alternatives that are as effective at releasing live fish.

Back when I worked with regs, I believe that the application of scent was considered "bait".

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#983423 - 01/10/18 09:09 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
The Selective Gear regulations (single, barbless, no bait) were in effect from 1981 through the 2009 season with zero evidence that fishing had any measurable negative effect on runsize. Selective Gear on the Skagit and Sauk is an accepted tradition at this point. I doubt WDFW wants to mess with success right off the bat when the Skagit is re-opened. Face it, the Skagit steelhead is the only PR success in the Puget Sound region for the Department since the Baker sockeye come back in 2010.

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#983428 - 01/10/18 10:32 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: GodLovesUgly]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
Originally Posted By: GodLovesUgly
I for one would be elated just to FISH my home waters again before I'm fvcking dead.


You are not alone. That is the reason why they are opening it.

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#983464 - 01/11/18 08:15 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: _WW_]
Cozmo Offline
Smolt

Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 94
Loc: Ballard, Wa
Originally Posted By: _WW_
Some of this information is dated so it may not be entirely accurate but I think it's close enough to get the idea across.
The management plan was put together by WDFW, three tribes, and the Skagit River System Cooperative. The tribes were involved because that's what co-management means, and it's the law.

It's been reported that the tribes use most of their impacts during the Spring chinook fishery (June) which results in capturing steelhead kelts. This is not accounted for in a 1 for 1 manner, but something like 6 kelts being equal to 1 impact. Reason being that the fish have spawned already and there is reduced likelyhood that most of them will return again.

In the C&R fishery, impacts are calculated at 10% mortality; 10 released = 1 impact.

So what does it all mean?
Lets run some numbers. In the tiered impacts schedule a forecasted run of 5000 fish would allow for 10% impacts. That's 500 dead fish. The Tribes get half and we get half. So for us we are allowed 250 impacts. At a mortality rate of 10% we would have to release 2500 fish to max out the allowed impacts. It's a 12 week season...that means we would have to C&R 208.33 every single week for 12 weeks running. All this while 25% of the run never swims above the downstream fishing barrier!

If you can find a more conservative plan that still allows fishing for steelhead, I'd like to hear about it.



Good points. Can you clarify what "All this while 25% of the run never swims above the downstream fishing barrier" means?


Edited by Cozmo (01/11/18 08:15 AM)
Edit Reason: I can't spell

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#983466 - 01/11/18 10:01 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
Cozmo,

I won't swear to WW's 25%, but a good portion of the Skagit wild steelhead run stages in the area downstream of the lower fishing boundary until after the season closes, March 15 for the middle river and April 30 for the upper reach upstream of the Dalles bridge, when they then migrate further upstream to spawn.

Sg

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#983487 - 01/11/18 10:36 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: Salmo g.]
Cozmo Offline
Smolt

Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 94
Loc: Ballard, Wa
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Cozmo,

I won't swear to WW's 25%, but a good portion of the Skagit wild steelhead run stages in the area downstream of the lower fishing boundary until after the season closes, March 15 for the middle river and April 30 for the upper reach upstream of the Dalles bridge, when they then migrate further upstream to spawn.

Sg


Are you referencing what the seasons used to be prior to the Jan 31st closures?

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#983493 - 01/12/18 09:19 AM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
Cozmo,

Yes.

Sg

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#984286 - 01/26/18 04:19 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1385
Any word on when or if a Skagit/Sauk C & R season will occur this year? Any time frame on pending announcements?
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#984296 - 01/26/18 07:18 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: eyeFISH]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 16138
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Personally looking forward to an opportunity (or two) to huck a Skagit line into its namesake water.... been a MIGHTY long time.

I hope that it comes to fruition.
_________________________
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein.

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#984298 - 01/26/18 07:23 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
I exchanged a lot of email today with regional bio Brett Barkdull today following the departments meeting with NOAA on the topic. He indicated the department is trying to fulfill Unsworths promise and schedule a substantial season. Right now, if all things go well, we are looking at 3/1 to 4/15. That's a pretty good estimate, but it isnt etched in stone yet. This issue exposes funding flexibility for the department. In order to get more than two weeks, some other program is going to lose money. More once I l know it...
_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#984301 - 01/26/18 08:45 PM Re: Skagit C&R [Re: jam session]
5 * General Evo Offline
Lord of the Chums

Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 6829
They could make money with an endorsement for that time frame.. 10 bucks like the Columbia?
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ANTIFA IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION


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