Does anyone have an idea which "hatchery run" the tribe is targeting?



TULALIP TRIBES REGULATION NO: 2017-214-104 (Steelhead 8A1,8A2,8A3,8A4, 8D) DATE ADOPTED: 02/05/2018 EFFECTIVE DATES: February 06, 2018 through March 30th, 2018 FISHERY TYPE: Commercial SUPERSEDES/MODIFIES REGULATION NO: None

Area: 8A1,8A2,8A3,8A4, 8D Species: Steelhead --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Treaty Steelhead opening in area 8A1, 8A2, 8A3, 8A4. 8D to target harvestable hatchery steelhead --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gillnet (5 inch min. mesh) Skiff Gillnet (5 inch min. mesh) Setnet (5 inch min. mesh) Beach Seine; Roundhaul

SCHEDULE: During the period 02/06/2018 - 03/30/2018:

OPEN MONDAY through FRIDAY, OPEN daily at 7:00 AM and CLOSE daily at 5:00 PM

Area restriction: Fishing is closed to all gear in that portion of Area 8A in Port Susan north of a line extended west from Kayak Point to the tower on Camano Island. The upstream boundary of Area 8A3 in the Snohomish River is the I-5 bridge

Hatchery kelts??

No idea.
Tulalip Bubble Steelhead?
SF

Stilly?

That's pretty late for chambers creek fish.

Anyone know where to see a map of the areas listed?

Here Page 17. with descriptions of A,B,C on the following pages.

Thanks!

Maybe I’m missing something but this seems absolutely disgusting.

Gonna have to agree. February to March at the mouth of the Snohomish river. Some Chambers kelts going out but a lot more wild fish coming in...

There will be approximately zero hatchery fish harvested in this fishery. I would love to hear what the State and Feds have to say about it.

Fish on...

Todd

Any steelhead fishery at that time of year whether in the bay or the river can only be consider to be targeting wild steelhead.

Curt

Krijack, Can we get the link to where you found this?

Thanks

On a related noted, anybody know what year the spring catch and release fishery on the Snohomish system shut down?

2000, I believe.

Fish on...

Todd

If WDFW had huevos they could/should directly challenge it. It's what they used to do, before Co-management. Now they "negotiate".

Need to remember back a few years ago when the State and Feds approved a Baker sockeye fishery in late May. I mention this as there is decades of trap data as to when the sockeye actually arrive.

There go the last of the awesome Pilchuck wild fish that the backyard poachers didn't get! I get that they are a sovereign nation but SO ARE WE! Who's going to stand up for OUR fish! Stewards of the land my ass! Sometimes the tribes advocate for fish-positive policy but in this case it's blatant [Bleeeeep!]!

Unbelievable........How can this even be considered by the stewards of the environment? This is wrong, we either protect wild steelhead by all user groups or its a hopeless cause.

Now that its clear and obvious they have no one to answer to and they can get away with whatever they feel like, it's time to really start taking advantage. Unbelievable that they can blatantly get away with fishing over a depressed and threatened stock that's been closed to everybody to try and repair it. Guess they're above everybody else though. How discriminating and unequal does Washington want to take this?!!! This is a new low!

Where are you now WFC? What, no money in it? Corruption sucks!!!!

Just a week after the WDFW Director moves on, and the Commissioners reject a proposed NOF rule change based on the guidance of a WA State AAG, a Tribal entity unilaterally declares a "season" on another threatened fishery...certainly a coincidence, don't you think? Those who are unfamiliar with precedence and history are certainly doomed to repeat it.

Take this to the Commission and go over their desk tops with it. Ask all the questions you're rightfully entitled answers to. Be sure to inquire how they could depend on a legal strategy supposedly built around resource protection that has been a miserable failure for more than a decade. Remind them that their overall mission is to preserve and protect a Recreational fishermens' opportunity as well as conserving our fish.

Wrap things up with a resolving demand that they collectively seek a different direction in regard to their legal counsel...one that the stakeholders can embrace and support...

In most situations I'd try to give people the benefit of the doubt but it was only 2 years ago that their fish and wildlife director was arrested for operating the largest seafood poaching operation in Washington state history.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/tulalip-tribe-fish-and-wildlife-director-arrested-/28782032

I'm amazed that these guys wouldn't want y'all in the meetings with them....

Those Italians can cry with the best of them, regardless of their costume.......
SF

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Eyes_Cody

Aren’t those wild steelhead ESA listed fish?

Where do you find this published online?

I haven't been able to find this in any of the published regulations...where did you find it Krijack?

Thanks!

Fish on...

Todd

As fake as the ruse of Champions of conservation!

Perhaps he's shedding a tear because the recs still get to fish at all!

"Hell yes we believe in conservation, we just think it is better served in secret!"

I use to be on a email list from the address TreatyFishRegs@dfw.wa.gov in which I received all the notices/openings posted for tribal fishing...crab, salmon, warm water, squid, etc. I stopped receiving them in March of last year for some reason???

First the eye-talians, next is gonna be ze Germans. . .I don't like where this is going one bit,

fb

FYI-

Good morning Ryley,

Staff is looking in to this and will provide you a response. I just wanted to give you a heads up we received your email and will respond.

Thanks,

Ryan

From: FEE, RYLEY

Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:22 AM
To: Warren, Ron R (DFW) <Ron.Warren@dfw.wa.gov>; Lothrop, Ryan L (DFW) <Ryan.Lothrop@dfw.wa.gov>
Cc: staff@tidalexchange.com
Subject: FW: TUL 2017-214-104 (Steelhead 8A1,8A2,8A3,8A4, 8D)

Ryan,
Ron,

How can we challenge the justification of this fishery? We all know there are no harvestable hatchery steelhead in the lower reaches on the Snohomish system at this time of year, and this is a opener under the frivolous guise of targeting hatchery steelhead is in actuality targeting ESA listed Wild Steelhead which are present in these areas at this time of year.

As far as I can recall, the Tulalips have not fished for Steelhead in this area, at this time of year, for a very long time.
I would ask you for a list of options about how the Department can challenge the justification for this fishery and stop it if possible.

Thanks,
Ryley




From: Treaty Fish Regs (DFW) [mailto:TreatyFishRegs@dfw.wa.gov]

Thanks for looking into it Sky-guy.

Seconded!

Im fricken irate!!!!!!!! This has to stop WDFW!!!! Fair is fair and corruption is obvious in this case. This better be stopped!!!

WDFW has lost all credibility and why should we put any stock in them? Seriously.... if they cant stop this, they are worthless!!!

The Commission should be asked for an explanation on this as well.

Once again, Mr. Ron Warren has a hand in something that on the surface anyway, seems very wrong!

Vent your outrage where it might do some good. Send a message to the Commission and hold them accountable.

Use this link and get that message sent.

Contact the Commission

This kind of crap is going to continue as long as words take the place of action. Get up out of your chairs, go to your keyboards en masse...and tell the Commission what's taking place.

You've made contact with the same Fisheries Managers who have fubared the Co-Management situation for more than a decade, including the formulation of the recent controversial Ten Year Puget Sound Management Plan. You received a "we will look into it" response? Look at their track record!!

Go to the top: call out the Commission!!

I googled "REGULATION NO: 2017-214-104". The first result was this thread. The second was titled "Blood Pressure Numbers: When to Get Help | Cigna". Coincidence?

Message sent.

Probably d1ck. I'd like to hear what the Stillaguamish Tribe has to say about it.

I'll tell you how you stop it! You grow a pair and blow it up with a floatilla of enforcement boats arresting every gillnet boat that deploys. Have every major news crew on board the enforcement boats reporting on how the Tribe is illigally fishing on ESA listed fish! That will catch the eye of the C-attleites. Back in the day during the number quota years Gamies used to "Enforce" the number rule when quotas were met, by physically pulling nets and having confrontations! History can repeat itself!

I find it interesting that the OP has never reproduced his source?

If that info notice was bogus, WDFW via Ron Warren should be able to authenticate or disprove the fact in very short order---if they actually gave a care, and were doing their jobs. BTW--if authentic--where was the Co-Management factor in the season-setting process??

Here is the phone number for the Tulalip Tribal Harvest Management office. I called but got no answer, but left a call back message. Perhaps others would like to call to ask about the authenticity and maybe get some answers?
Harvest Management
360-716-4610

Someone needs to post up on the mouth and record everything in secret. I wouldn't take any of the usual suspects word for anything. Who watches the watchers?

I'm sure this won't surprise everyone, but although this may (or may not if fake) be the first official opener, the Tulalips net the mouth and beaches every year for steelhead. There's 5-6 boats that do it. I know 2nd hand one netter already has a dozen or so wild fish for the year.

Targeting both Stilly and Snohomish wild fish. Has been like this for a long time.

To add to the comment about what the Stilly Tribes thinks of it..... it doesn't matter. The Tulalips sh!t on multiple local tribes already with their harvest.

Krijack, do you have any proof of this netting ?

The Facts as described to me by
Robert Skoog Natural Resources Specialist I, Tulalip Tribe.
360-716-4627

This is essentially a subsistence fishery, that usually only a couple of guys at the most will participate in. It is opened so if a tribal member wants to go get a fish for dinner or so, he can. Few do, because of the weather and the difficulty in finding the fish. They are targeting the Reiter Pond hatchery fish. To date, they have caught 19 fish total. No one is fishing today. And they don't expect anyone to fish for the next few days. They had two native fish total so far.

The reason the announcement was listed as a commercial fishery is due to the regulation about the length of the fishery. Subsistence and Ceremonial fisheries are limited to a couple of days. They are not fishing for commercial sale. It's because of the length of the opening that it is listed that way.

Mr. Skoog was very polite and cordial in answering all my questions and invited me to post his contact information if any one else might like to speak to him. I would hope we reciprocate his civility with the like.

Thanks, Bay Wolf, for the follow-up.

Back in my day, a question like this received in the office would be answered back certainly within an hour by WDF. Glad that the Tulalips replied and gave a really good and detailed explanation. Somebody's on the ball.

thanks Bay Wolf.

Thanks for the info. Kind of a relief. I think most would not have a problem w/ a few exercising their right for a family couple of fish. Just wish they could do that hook and line, instead of gill nets w/ the hatchery brats earlier in the season. Even give them exclusive access to closed hatchery river/creek stretches do so.

I still smell a rat. There is a history of grossly underreporting catch and I know there are many fish sold out of the back of trucks. Any activity on that fishery needs monitoring.

That they have not caught many fish yet is no reason to support this fishery!
Hard to catch fish that are already dead.

.

Thanks for posting that Baywolf but it sounds like you were fed a pile of [Bleeeeep!]. So, to paraphrase, he told you that only a couple of guys do it to get a fish or 2 to eat... and that these types of fisheries are limited to a couple of days.

Yet, he told you they’ve caught 19 in the last 2 days (it just opened, right?) and, if the original post is right, it is open from 2 days ago until the end of March.

There is no hope.

YEP.... just another inconsequential gillnet fishery. Nothing to see here, folks... move along.

Meanwhile, Out on the peninsula.

Yesterday while having lunch at Microsoft, I saw fresh PNW steelhead on the menu. Asked the Chef if he knew where they came from. He said he didn't and then I had a pulled pork sandwich. The end.

Hahahaha! Good for you! If the fish don't sell, it won't be harvested. Did you happen to ask if the pork was wild or hatch? LOL!

Last year nearly about a third of the total Reiter winter steelhead escapement was counted after 1/31/17, the year before it was about 40% showing up after 1/26/16, so it's not crazy to think Reiter fish are around.

It just sucks that (a) they'll also be killing any wild fish that are around, and (b) recs don't get a shot at the hatchery fish that are still coming in.

Are the Reiter fish all Chambers brats or have they started trying to get later returns? February seems late for Chambers fish to be returning.

I do want to add that Mr. Skoog mentioned that hook and line was being used, although gill nets are authorized. I failed to put that in my summery and it was an oversight on my part and should of been included in an effort to be fully transparent. For that, I apologize.

I think dialogue is important, and since Mr. Skoog seems comfortable in speaking on this, it is always best to hear it from those that are active in the matter rather than lean on second hand information.

Perhaps this might lead to better communication, and that is always good.

Hook and line? What a novel concept.
Now these numbers make more sense. They have KEPT two wild fish and 17 hatchery.
I am sure they are logging all CNR impacts...

I'm sorry to say, but you were in fact lead a line of BS. On Mr. Skoog's behalf, he probably isn't informed on what actually happens so he may have thought he was speaking the truth.

Ask the locals who live there. They watch it EVERY DAY. Those tribal netters know exactly how, when and where those steelhead run. You think steelhead only run the beaches at whidbey? HA. Those beach seines/gilnets they use are flat out DEADLY. Look at what they did on the Fraser to the Thompson fish.

I cannot validate what I was told as truth or otherwise. I merely went to a source that should have some details and reported what I was told. As in every situation, the truth probably lies somewhere within the middle. It would be interesting to have this matter dug into more completely and facts verified...it would serve transparency well.

Have we heard ANYTHING back from Mr. Warren or WDFW?

Nothing from WDFW. I sent a follow up yesterday...crickets!

Correction....

Hard to UN-catch the fish that are already dead.

So then presumably there is an "allowable harvest" agreed upon by both co-managers?

Has NOAA then rubber stamped this?

There is a Federal mandate allowed exploitation rate cap of around 4%. Some of that is used to support the hatchery directed winter sport fishery.

Curt

Well 19 so far and many more to go. Curious as to what the forecast for wild steelhead on the skykomish the winter/ spring is to be.

We’ll find out. I know a FOIA was filed.

Anyone have some hay bales laying around? I have heard that historically the nets don't fair well in deer creek when the bales come rolling down. Might be the same for local big rivers.

Sadly with the state playing the “we can’t do nuffin” card in regards to situations such as this the public is being pushed toward the actual stewards of the resource.

How a fishery that can impact ESA listed fish was allowed is sad. I haven’t fished for native steelhead in that system for years because it’s been closed...at least to a group of us...

I just got this response from the Commission. I assume it's a cut and paste that they sent to lots of people, because it attributes a few statements to me that I never said.

There's a chart at the bottom that doesn't cut & paste well, so I've left it out.

(sic) throughout.

"Thank you for sharing your concern regarding the harvest of Snohomish wild steelhead in Tulalip Treaty fisheries. As you point out the Snohomish stock of steelhead is listed under the federal Endangered Species Act (ESA); it is a component of the Puget Sound evolutionary significant unit which was listed in 2007. As a result both state managed sport fisheries and tribally managed fisheries with impacts on these stocks are required to be permitted by NOAA Fisheries. As part of the listing and permitting process NOAA develops what is called a Biological Opinion in which it assess factors associated with our fisheries and the likelihood that our combined “action” – the fisheries being assessed – will or will not “pose jeopardy to recovery” of the stock. In their assessment, NOAA Fisheries looked at our future fisheries with the expectation that they would remaining at levels similar to those which immediately preceded the listed. The basis for this is rooting the fact that the co-managers had taken significant actions to reduce impacts in the years prior to the listing. In their assessment NOAA Fisheries viewed harvest impacts on wild winter steelhead relative to “historic levels”; here again, that period immediately prior to listing – 2001/02 through 2006/07 fishing season. Their assessment focused on the 5 key stocks (Skagit, Snohomish, Green, Puyallup, and Nisqually); for the aggregate the average harvest rate identified by NOAA was 4.2%.



With that as the backdrop for developing a fishery management plan for the 2017/18 season, co-managers craft fisheries based on historical rates of effort and catch. In this system these rates are considered to be conservative given actual effort and catch when assessed in the post-season context. The forecast runsize for the 2017/18 season is 3,000 wild winter steelhead and the total predicted harvest impact is 3.4% (73 fish in the Tulalip fishery and 27 All citizens sport fishery). This is associated with a Tulalip fishery that is predicted to harvest 66 hatchery origin winter steelhead and a sport fishery which is predicted to harvest 2,271 hatchery origin steelhead.



In your correspondence you state that “there are no harvestable hatchery wild steelhead in the lower reaches on the Snohomish system at this time of year”, from historical data we see that the fishery has harvested hatchery fish into March. From our perspective removing adult hatchery fish from the system is a good thing. You also indicate that the Tulalip Tribe has not fished for steelhead in these areas during this time of year in a very long time, to the contrary, while the Tulalip Tribes’ fishery has very little effort – particularly in the past 5 seasons – this regulation is very similar to those issued in recent years. Their total catch of wild fish in recent years has substantively declined; date for three recent five-year periods is summarized in the table below:



5-year season range


Average annual harvest of wild winter steelhead

2002/03 - 2006/07*


31.2*

2007/08 - 2011/12


18

2012/13 - 2016/17


1.6

* all fisheries were closed due to a low predicted run-size in 2002/03; taking that season out of the average would result in an average of 39 fish/year.



I point out this catch information because I think it is important in the context of the impacts predicted to occur versus their actual fishery; i.e. we would anticipate something far less than 73 wild.


For comparison Snohomish sport impacts over the past 10 years have averaged an estimated annual hooking mortality of 28 wild winter steelhead and an average annual harvest of 3,001 early winter hatchery steelhead.


The management plan also includes language which states that co-managers will exchange information through the end of week 5 (end of January), to determine how the remainder of the season will proceed. The threshold for this trigger is based on effort and catch of wild winter steelhead. From the start of the fishery in December through February 5 the Tulalip harvest were 2 unmarked and 17 marked steelhead reported; therefore these was co-manager agreement to proceed with the remaining schedule. Another provision in the plan says that the tribe will closely monitor the fishery and close if catch approaches the pre-season modeled value for wild steelhead. Suffice it to say WDFW sees no justification for or options by which we would object to the fishery."

Sorry for the lack of response guys. I had some things going on and did not get on the site last week. As to where this release came from ---someone listed a contact from the state last year in which you could request all the tribal notifications. I signed up and try to take a look at anything strange that pops up, but there are so many notifications it can be hard. I recommend doing this as it will give you a good idea of what is going on. Its where I picked up Nisqually opening this year, along with the recent plans to harvest squid. It also was interesting in 2016 as there were private reports the Nisqually tribe was netting, but no opening was announced or noted in the regs. I sent out some emails to the tribe and to the state on a Friday morning and, while I never got a response, the two sides printed out an immediate emergency opening that afternoon for both sides.

Again, I highly recommend any one that spends anytime looking into what is going on or spends a lot of time on the river to sign up for the releases. It can reveal some interesting information at times.

If you want to get the updated tribal fishing regulations, you need to send your request to:

TreatyFishRegs@dfw.wa.gov.

This list is maintained by staff rather than an automated program.

As Krijack says, you'll get every change that the tribes submit to WDFW from sea urchins to squid to salmon, crab, halibut.......everything commercial and what they are proposing for subsistence and ceremonial seasons along with the dates, permitted gear, and bag/possession limits. You'll quickly find out that tribal regulations in their U&A are usually not anywhere close to the sport fishing regulations.

bushbear's response really ups the interest. And, adds further fuel to the WTF does WDFW do.

WDFW sent out that reg to Krijack, so they had the reg in hand when folks asked. And they still didn't know what was going on?

Are you getting more than just fin fish openings? I requested to be added to the email list and this is the reply I received:
"You will receive emails from us when there are finfish regulations."

It appears that they are sending over all the releases that the tribes provide. This includes anything from Sea Urchins to Razor clams to salmon. Generally anything that would fall under Boldt, but does not include hunting or on reservation harvest. The shell fish and crab releases are a little hard to follow as they are all done by harvest area, which may or may not be easily recognizable. Depending on the time of the year, anywhere from 3 or 4 a week to 5 or 6 a day may be sent out.
One last thing to note is that there are not any releases from the Columbia river treaty tribes, so they might be providing there scheduled fisheries some where else.

I requested to receive shellfish along with fin fish. We will see what I get. I want to know when the tribes are crabbing and fishing in my areas so I don't loose crab gear.

Here is a link to the commercial crab areas:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/commercial/crab/pugetsound/graphics/crabregions.jpg