Well, it's been just over a year ago Keith that you started a thread about effective scent and bite enhances for salmon. I will put up some of the posts from that interesting thread. And then see if anything further has been learned by this fall. >>>

Author Topic: SCENTS ON SILVERS AND CHINOOKS????
stlhdr1 posted 09-20-2000 11:03pm

I was wondering if anyone out there has any way of getting these silvers to bite? Is eggs the best and what scents do you use on chinooks and silvers?
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stlhdr1 posted 09-22-2000 11:20pm

Maybe a better question is there any bite enhancers out there that get silvers to bite? Whats best to use when silvers and chinook get lock jawed?
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RT unleeshed posted 09-28-2000 05:15pm

Stlhdr1, I noticed back aways you posted back to Kalamabama that you hammered bunches of 'Nooks and silvers on the Kalama using a special sauce scent on your eggs. You've posted for other's ideas here. Since you brought up the subject, perhaps if you share the ingredients of that sauce with us you will be reciprocated with some definite strike enhancers. - RT
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stlhdr1 posted 10-01-2000 09:02pm

The reason I ask is I wanted to know how much people really know and if they really have any idea about what scents can do for them. Well I should back up my mouth and a small pointer is RUBBING ALCOHOL and other ingredients.... Can't say much more but that should perk up the ears and get people moving... I just can't say much more it wouldn't be a secret. If played with enough you may find it as one of the best bite enhancers in the fishing world... ONE WORD FOR YOU ALL DISPERSION!!!! I've actually produced a SAUCE that works wonders on chinooks and silver and didn't know how much people really knew, and its not that I don't want to share it its that it has taken me since I was 12 years old and about 250-300 days a year worth the fishing to come up with it but if you think DISPERSION you will be able to produce great bite enhancers yourself.!!!
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RT unleeshed posted 10-02-2000 03:15am

Some things I like about you w/o even having met you St 1. [edit: we have since fished together with great results] You are very enthusiastic, like to experiment a lot, and you have the watertime to put in to make those qualities pay off. As for King (and to a lesser degree steelhead) scents, we are finding out so many things that they either like so strike or dislike to such a degree they strike at it to get it out of their territory. Are you aware that these fish not only strike at egg clusters because they like them and they are a natural food to them, but fishery biologist's strongly theorize that they also sometimes strike eggs due to an evolutionary developed instinct to "hit" other eggs to void the competition for their own eggs/offspring. That theory would lend well to why these fish will hit things that defy logic.
If you like the dispersion qualities of rubbing alcohol in scents, how do you think a 70% gel solution of DMSO would work? Have you tried putting Cravex Plus, the only scientifically proven fish appetite stimulator, into a slow dispersion medium for use in scents or on bait for slower water King fishing? There are so many things that work that some serious fishermen know about, but I have a strong hunch that there are a lot more that would work that none of us know about; yet. - Warning: Don't let DMSO come in contact with your skin! Especially if it has any chems in it!!

I think breaking down baitscents to disperse faster will have it's advantages in some types of water conditions, but the bait will not milk out scent for as long in fastwater. And salmon don't need to have it solvent degraded in order to smell it; they do have great olfactory senses! I agree about the oil break down dispersion property of alcohol. It probably works as well on eggs as your experiment on shrimp Marty. Sardine oil has a thicker viscosity, so harder to break down (and harder to get the odor off your hands). Try those bottle experiments with WD40, and then a 70% strength liquid DMSO Marty (90% is likely too hot), and let us know the results on some eggs as well as the shrimp and sardine. Compare the results with alcohol. I think those 2 things will break down the oils, as does rubbing alcohol, without having the inherant costic properties that could bother some fish; but obviously not others. We all know that WD40 has worked well for years on such as herring, shrimp, and eggs. I believe it's because it will do a similar oil break down dispersion function as alcohol, but it is less costic and more fishy smelling. However, alcohol may change as rapidly underwater as it does in the air. So I would like to hear more about it from St.1. - RT
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stlhdr1 posted 10-03-2000 10:12am

Well you guys are right on track as far as the dipersion thing works out. But what I don't understand is what is DMSO. I have never heard of that before. I just want to let you all know that alcohol is just the start of it and to keep your eyes and ears open, and don't forget to keep squirting those baits with them sauces....
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RT unleeshed posted 10-04-2000 03:57am

DMSO is liquid dimethylsuloxide. It was discovered by OHSU's Dr. Stanley Jacobs. It is made from plant organic extracts. It has a very unique property in that it will actually penatrate most any organic membrane and some cell tissues, including human skin and the underlying soft connective tissues; and salmon egg sack membranes. However, since it is so powerful of a penitrant the FDA would not pass it because it will take anything on your skin, or in impure DMSO, right into your blood stream with unknown side effects. It can be found in some variety stores and pharmacies (at least in Oregon) labeled as a solvent with a skin warning, to get around the FDA. I have experimented with distilled water diluted 50% [and 70%] DMSO solutions with eggs. It will break down oils and fats for dispersion. It smells fishy (and taste clammy). I think it may have great potential in combination with other ingredients and mediums, for it's dispertion, scent, and curing factors. I just don't have enough time to be on the water properly testing it. That's why I would like Marty and St.1 to experiment and river test it also (using rubber gloves!). Perhaps using it in place of alcohol in St.1's formula could be interesting! Stay tuned. - RT
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stlhdr1 posted 10-04-2000 11:32pm

WIT, PLEASE EMAIL ME BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT I NEED FROM CHEMISTS THAT I CANT GET OVER THE COUNTER!!!!! THINGS THAT I AM ALMOST OUT OF!!! THE STUFF THAT JUST RIPPS THERE LIPS OFF... And yes you all are on the right track and never give up because I never did and I know what I know now!!! [yes he does]
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Back to the future. 10/29/01.

What have we all learned in the year since those startup revelations? I learned what is actually in Keith's "sauce". Not by his choice. It turns out that Jerry and I had been using it for some time and it is a very distinctive smelling stuff! I smelled it right away and said to Keith, hey that's *****. One of long time WA guide Clancy Holt's secrets; that eventually got out. I have assured Jerry and then Keith that I would never post what it is, and I won't. But keep after it by experimenting with other solvents and dispersents than just WD40 and alcohol and you may find an extrememly effective (most of the time) bait additive. As for the DMSO, friends and I have further experimented with it and the results are very good. But I have to recommend you not use it because of the dangers of side effects if you get it on your skin; especially if you have other chems added into it (it will take them right into your bloodstream). I use it only on occassion over the side of the boat with rubber gloves on. I prefer other benign but effective scent additives.

I will give you one example to try. It's Valvoline "SynPower" Penetrating Lubricant. It says right on the front of the can "Out Performs WD40". It sure smells fishier. You try that on your baits and let me know how it works, comparing it side by side with WD40 or whatever else you like (posted here or via e-mail).

Hey Keith, what more have ya learned in the past year - that you are willing to share anyway?
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[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: RT i ]

RT-
Well, great work there as far as remembering everything, that had to take some time. Anyhow over the last year, we've had another extremely successful fall season, and as time has progressed we've used the same sorts of alcohols to break things down and apparently you know what they are RT and we'll leave it at that!

More than not, what I've been experimenting with is the scents that you mix with the alcohols, trying to up my success rate by testing certain scents. We've came up with a few and I'd love to share but they're certainly the edge as well as a great egg cure we've also developed. I'd love to tell the world everything, but have probably already said too much and not just that but it would take all the fun out of trial and error of doing this, and also take away from a lot that you will learn when mixing this with that and seeing what salmon truly like.

For those out there that have the time to play the game, believe me it's a frustrating one because you will spend lots of time and money on scents and find that certain concoctions will work on certain strains of fish. I've been excited about getting down and trying some of the concoctions we have made down at tillamook, but haven't had the chance yet. Once again, we'd take the proven stuff but I'll gaurantee that all strains of chinook and silvers are different, and will take a lot of time to come up with ones that are killer down there.

Another issue that you will run into is that salmon (chinook, silvers) will go on a biting frenzy with a specific concoction for a short period of time (4-10 days) and then will turn off to it presence. It's those chinook and silvers that have stacked up in situations like near hatcheries or holes in lower water conditions where they are aging that they really act on scent concoctions. Making modifycations to that specific sauce sometimes doesn't even help, sometimes you just have to start over. We have a couple of concoctions that work great 95% of the time and we always have them with us.

Another kink to throw into the system is that although salmon are very responsive to scents/formulas they will act extremely wierd when they are fresh fish and especially in tidewater situations. One thing you will notice in tidewater situations or bright fish is not necessarily what scent you are using but what's in the egg cure as a bite enhancer. Certain chems work better in these given conditions than say on those fish that are stacked near the hatchery. There are times when straight bait will outdo any scent concoction that you have. Other issues to always deal with are water temp., clarity, height. So many things that make it tough but experimentation is where it's at.

Anyhow, I know these aren't the answers that you were looking for and I hope that everyone has the chance to get out and play the game. Some of you will get lucky the first try and others will spend years coming up with something that works.
Keith

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: stlhdr1 ]

Stlhdr1, I'm confused (as always). Are you patenting a scent too, besides the egg cure or is the scent in the egg cure, or??

Just wanted to add a funny but true story. The idea that fish stacked up near the hatchery will sometimes react to smelly stuff is true.

I had one of my 8th graders, I'm a teacher, come in on Monday and tell me he caught a lot of silvers up by the hatchery on Sunday using garlic favored marshmellows.

Kids will try anything.

Very interesting topic.

I have worked several years in a chemistry lab and worked extracting oils and other organics using solvents, such as acetone, methylene chloride, and others, for testing purposes. I have always wondered if I could extract the oils out of roe or shrimp, herring etc, and if that would be effective. Now you have my curiosity sparked.

Mike K,
You've also sparked my interest if you can extract scents from things. Perhaps we could do a little talking via email and try and put together some different types of concoctions.
KB,
Yes we're putting the egg cure together that has the proper bite stimulants, the scents are a whole different story. Maybe some day though, we've seriously thought about it.
Keith

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: stlhdr1 ]

Hey Keith,

Hope I can get some of your egg cure to use on some upcoming Tillamook 'nook eggs soon. I'm eager to try it out, and know it's gonna be good.

As for marketing your scent, I'll sure give that my endorsement from wittnessing it work so well. Tricky good stuff!

Steve