This has been an ongoing harshly debated issue for years now - without good resolutions between riverfront property owners and bankfishers. I would like to re-open debate, including new info, on this important fishng issue. Please keep it civil (unduely harsh or derogatory posts will draw a warning and possible edit). It's an important concern that is growing into a bigger issue as numbers of fishermen increase yearly. Cowlitzfisherman's post thread "New Cowlitz River access being developed" is a good preface to this one. Another one disclosed that a major Wind River front property owner strongly restricted access for this years springer fishing on a very popular productive stretch due to property abuse and litering by fishing slobs. Same thing for a very popular stretch on the Sandy River; where the Assoc. of NW Steelheaders are negotiating for getting it re-opened for bank anglers who will treat it properly. ...

I have always beleived strongly that nature's rivers, like the mountains and beaches, belong to all people; not exclusively for the wealthy or fortunate heirs! The navigable river laws state that bankfishing below the mean high water mark is legal as long as posted private property was not crossed to get there. Although many rivers have not been declared 'navigable', many informed landowners now realize that bringing this issue to court likely will not only result in a declaration of navigability to their river, but also media publicity that the river is open for bank anglers who properly access it (could take chestwaders in some cases). Even though this could put bankies in holes where I would otherwise boatfish, I believe in the ethical fairness of this law. And I am stating this knowing that it could cost me some boatfishing opp and won't make some guides and landowners real happy with me. Still going to put my 0.02 worth in for what I believe is right - on both sides of this issue. Therefore, I also advocate the stiffest of penalties for those that abuse or liter private property - taking away fishing licences for 6 months and a large fine for a first offense; and upward of a 2 year fishing license ban from both of the NW states and a huge fine for a repeat offense; regardless which state it occured in. For further offense or fishing w/o a license ... jail time with Bubba! We need more officers afield, and camcorders used by landowners. These stupid slobs are what degrade property and fishing opportunity for others, and they don't deserve to be out there (so stupid and so easily avoidable). ...

Further, I agree with reasonable reassessment of property value for tax purposes in cases where anglers can henceforth readily access a landowner's bankfront property without having to cross his main property above said mean high water mark if this was not common prior to the previous assessment. Isn't this only applicable in Oregon, due to Washington's salestax? There also is now a new law in Oregon, undergoing court reviews for legality as worded, to compensate property owners who lose significant property value due to unforeseen state or other unexpected activity that occurs after purchasing the property at a market value greater than it would hence be worth. Sounds fair to me; albeit very complicated. Does Washington have such a compensatory law? However, I think buyer awareness of any laws pertaining to a property purchase is ultimately their responsibility. Same for car purchases. ...

So what are your thoughts and/or suggestions to help solve this increasing conflict over lost fishing opportunity due to riverfront land ownership? Gee, will there be any unbiased replies? I hope so. They are likely to be noticable. Mine here is unbiased, being primarily a boat fisherman.

RT

[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

I want to add to this post the fact that its not only private riverfront landowners that are restricting access to some of our rivers.

In my opinion, an even bigger issue is that many private timber companies are also taking more drastic measures to restrict access. I have experienced this on many of my favorite summer run streams, where the timber companies are installing new gates that prevent access to entire watersheds, which prevents us from accessing many miles of some of the best fishing water.

In these cases it is usually not fisherman, but rather local residents, that back their pickup trucks up and unload piles and piles of garbage, that causes the timber companies to take such drastic measures.

We, the fisherman feel the effects of this action, which leads to increased pressure on the remaining streams in the area that are open. I always carry a pen and paper to record license plate numbers of suspicious vehicles in these areas, and do not hesitate to contact the landowners. And like most of us, I always carry a litter bag and pack out any litter I run across. This goes a long way when confronted by a landowner.

I have seen several cleanup efforts from individuals on this board, and I believe that it is this kind of action that is neccassary, by each of us on our favorite rivers, that can help prevent further restrictions by property owners, including timber companies.

I have cut timber for just about every timber company around Washington and it isn't just only the trash but people are moving campers in and living..and also poaching..That was the reason for the shut down of the 7400 gravel bar launch and also Kapowsin lake shut down..Some timber companys are charging a fee to enter there land and I think that it might not be such a bad idea..That way the trash leavers are not going to pay to go dump there trash and you also have a set time to be out at night so there won't be any people taking up stakes on the river bank..At first the idea of them charging pissed me off but now I can see how it would help prevent these things.just my .02...TM

RT I live on a north puget sound river and I don't have a problem with guys coming thru my place to fish PROVIDING they ask permission. I will not tolerate some yaahoo sneaking thru my prop. it makes me madder'n he.. to find someone doing that. A large percent of the people that have river front prop. i.e. homes on river probably will grant access to a polite individual. I always do. The only people that I've ever 86'd off my place were two young guys that I caught fishing in MY river pram!! Pretty ballsy I thought. The rest of the inconsiderate we're given a tongue lashing but were allowed to continue fishing with their promise to ask next time.
ASK-it can't hurt. Just my .02 worth

RT,
Yes you can refer to me as Cowfish!

I think what needs to be done ASAP is to have the WDFW post a list of all the property that is under their control, especially any easements that may run to and from our rivers and lakes. It would be simple for WDFW to put this information on their Web site. That way everyone could down load the information and print out there own maps and be sure that they are not trespassing onto someone's private property. I'll bet you that if fishermen knew they had a easement to enter a river that they fish, that they wouldn't take any chances on trespassing onto somebody else property. Just like the easement at the "Wallace Gravel Pits", no one knew about it. Look how many roads go to our riverfronts or lakes that are not paved but yet most of them have right-of-way easements right to the water edge.


Cowlitzfisherman


Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

It's an age-old problem. The pond scum of humanity ruins it for the people who care. Taking into account the history of the Washington state political process, I don't hold any hope of seeing a resolution because of something positive the state might do. We have to take matters into our own hands.

From personal observation over the years on numerous rivers, fishermen, with few exceptions, are indifferent to what they see going on around them. It's easier to ignore the "environmentally challenged" than write down a license plate number or call the police. That has to change.

Until us sportsmen/women take care of the areas we use; and show some passion doing it, I don't see the landowners budging-and with good reason.

Increased enforcement by the state? Won't do a thing! It's us who are out there when the pond scum flare up.

Where I'm going with all this is that when landowners see us taking care of the pond scum ourselves, and this happens over time, consistently, I think we will see many closed/posted areas open back up and this all could become a non-issue.

If things don't improve, This issue will never be resolved and we will continue to watch the state slowly get gated and posted until there is nothing left.

I've never been a fan of unnecessary fees but I have to agree with timberman here. At the tree company level, it is a pleasant thought to enter an area without fear of pond scum contaminating the area and only responsible outdoorsmen are allowed.

At the private landowner level, be courteous, pack your crap out and report those who ruin it for all of us.....show the landowner your on their side!

First off, to RT: litter has two "t's".

I have been vocal in the past about the trash on the rivers and lakes and the garbage that they leave behind. You can really only do so much to educate the terminally ignorant, so your only chances are in two places:

• educate their children in schools, clubs, and events so that they know to not continue the ways of their parent, and
• unfortunately, go into your fishing areas with a trash bag and clean up after them. No, we shouldn't have to do it but if we want access to these areas in the future we need to do it.

Sure, go ahead and charge an access fee for a daily or seasonal pass on those lands. Ultimately the money would go to improving the areas and not into the profit pockets of the timber industry.

Taking care of our natural fishing resources is a huge responsibility for all of us, and it is up to us whether we want to take on this challenge.

Profit pockets!! Timber companys own some of the land that is nonacessable and why shouldnt they charge a fee..It only makes sense if they let 100 cars in a weekend someone has to maintain the roads and do whatever clean up needs to be done...After all the timber company's land is "private" also!!!TM

It's not so much the private property owners that bother me (if I owned river frontage I would be extremely selective when it came to letting people have access to it). It's when landowners and timber companies "landlock" the stretches of river that otherwise would be open to the public. Also, if you can get away with accessing some stretch of river by means of using some type of loophole, ie, floating the river or simply wading it so as to stay below the high water mark, then more power to you! I do it all the time, I always stay within the limits of the law so as not to give said land owner any reason to shoot me. Some times it makes them mad, but this is a tough old world we live in, and if a land owner has to get mad simply because I was smart enough to find a loophole in the system, well then that's just too bad. That being said, I always make every effort to get the permission of the land owner first. Even when I have to use the "Back door" approach, I alway take a hefty sack with me and I always take more trash out with me then I went in with (as a way of trying to show these land owners that we are not all a bunch of slobs). I even will go as far as to bring some of the land owners an occasional fish for the grill. As a result, I have acess to some of the most exclusive stretches of river in the state of Washington. I guess what I'm trying to say is that whereas you can use the loopholes in the system when you have to, it is often times much easier to try to befriend the land owners whenever possible. As for the timber companies, they can try to throw all the gates in the world up, but as long as those gates are blocking access to public land, I'll continue to find ways of getting around them, even if it means riding my mountain bike down five miles of dirt road to get to where I wnat to go. And there is always somewhere to drop a mini-drifter in... They can't stop you from floating through their land.

Well said Zozo. Right on!