It's obvious that in the NW we have a growing problem of improper rudeness by jerks on our rivers and slob trash throwers as well. The states have been woefully slack in doing their job in keeping our rivers safe, clean, and enjoyable with proper etiquette the norm. Since part of the problem is lack of enough state budgeting for enforcement officers I have an idea for a low cost and likely effective way to address these growing issues. ...

We need large SIGNS posted by all popular boats launches/take outs and all popular bank fishing areas that concisely state proper guidlines of river and fishing etiquette that is fair to all user groups. A set of fair and ethical rules of acceptable behavior and conflict resolution criteria can be drawn up by a committee of anglers from this &/or other fishing websites and a consensus set of rules be forewith. They should be kept to the high priority issues, so as not to be too long - which could keep some guys from wanting to read them. They need to carry some substance in the form of stating "If enough complaints are issued about an individual or group of people, including guides who do not have special privilages, then steps will be taken to remove the chronic offenders from river privilages". And these signs need to be big enough and placed in a proper area so they can't be missed. And they need to be endorced and and randomly enforced by the appropriate enforcement agencies - something they should NOT be adverse to. ...

I will also suggest, as I did during the Wind River cleanup event, that large signs need to be placed, along with a large garbage can chained to a tree or post, at all major trail heads to popular bankfishing areas and at boat ramps that clearly state "DO NOT LITTER. Bring your trash back out with you and deposit it in the garbage can. Anyone caught littering by random surveilance will be cited and fined heavily. Further infractions will lead to loss of fishing privilages for an extended period of time". Again, make the signs big enough and properly placed so they can't be missed. And back this up by lower cost random surveilance by enforcement personel - since budgets don't enable watching everywhere all the time. This relatively simple, cost effective strategy will go a long ways in cleaning up our rivers of both jerks and trash. What will it take to get this simple solution done? Who knows the proper state reps and F&G Dept. personel to send these proposals too? Any of you reading this here now? With limited funds for officers afield, this will help them a lot - and they must follow thru with random surveilance and citations to put substance behind the solution signs. ... Suggestions?

RT

[ 07-04-2001: Message edited by: RT 1 ]

fines for littering signs would do the best i believe, has anyone contacted the game dept to see if that is posible ??

It is a shame that we actually need to even have signs telling people to do what should be common sense. Has anybody ever heard the term "don't $hit where you eat"? This holds true in all aspects of life.... Even fishing! Don't dump your garbage in the same river you depend on to provide you and your buddies with Steelhead and Salmon. Don't deliberately piss others off. Don't wait until signs are posted before you start to do the "right thing". Remember, we are all bretheren, we all share a love of the outdoors, we can either make the rivers a better place, or we can fight and argue amongst ourselves while the rivers and streams we love so much turn into cesspools. Practice some courtesy and common sense and with luck people will start to follow the example that is being set. Remember..... Ingorance begats ignorance

Two things come to mind. First of all Oregon rivers are cleaner than Washingtons. No flame but it's the truth! There are few if any trash cans in the public access areas in Washington and secondly there is no bottle bill! I'm not saying there isn't any trash along Oregon streams because there is! believe me there is plenty of trash but in the public access areas there are trash recepticles.
I have a question also for someone in Washington who may know. The yellow access stewardship stickers that are given out when buying a license is supposed to be strictly enforced isn't it? I was on the Washougal river last night and there were swimmers and sun bathers in every public access area. Not one had one of those stickers on their cars! I was the only one who did. So what is the deal with that? I was told that a $60 citation was given if you were caught without one. Just wanted to know. The state police or county sheriff could have written 75-100 tickets. It seems like the litter and vandalism problems in both states is getting worse

Stew,

What kind of public accesses were they? The stewardship decals only apply to WDFW owned fishing/hunting/recreational properties.

If they were state, county, or city parks, then the stickers aren't necessary.

If they were WDFW fishing accesses, then get on the horn to enforcement next time and let them know that you, a fisherman, can't even park at the access due to so many un-stickered vehicles.

Fish on...
Todd.

Yes Todd they were both posted WDFW access areas and noted that the sticker was necessary to park there. thanks or the info.

Couple of problems with the proposals, RT. Not that they aren't a good idea in theory, but...

• You are assuming that the offenders can, and are willing to, read the signs. Let alone care about following them.
• Taking away someone fishing priviledges does nothing. They'll still fish. Heck, people with their licenses suspended still drive. And arresting someone for fishing without a license would go over like a beer fart in church with the public.

I'd love to think that there is a magical way to get these idiots to change their ways. Unfortunately I don't think that it is going to happen so all that we have left are folks like ourselves out there picking up after them.

[ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: Heywood Jablomie ]

A speed limit sighn says 25 mph as you climb a remote road on the way to your favorite river. The reason for the sighn is just like the reason some of us want sighns on the river. Do you think most of us go 25 in the middle of nowhere? Same principle for the trash bum, he goes out to his fishing grounds and sees a sighn, but who is going to enforce anything out on the river, so trash bum dumps his sh** and goes about his way just like us driving 5-10mph over the limit on the way to our river. We didnt do any harm driving over the limit, and trash bum didnt think he did any harm dumping his empty beer containers.

people with good commom sense dont need sighns, and people with no common sense dont need sighns either because there not going to read it.

Bottom line is - do the right thing

I mentioned using bigger more prominent signs along with putting substance into it with random surveilance and citations. If that was not effective enough then the states need to grow some balls and write on the signs $500 dollar minimum fine for first offence littering and $1000 dollar minimum fine and loss of fishing license for a second offense. As for the @$$hole behavior it would be as successful as us fishermen would make it be thru the boat number complaint program. The extra revenue would help pay for more officers so they could work in pairs and rid our rivers of scumbags. It's time something with some teeth to it gets done!

RT

I'm gonna add to what you said about surveillance, RT. Why not go ahead and put up surveillance cameras anyways at major hang outs, etc.?

Since Gov. Locke thinks that Gamies shouldn't travel over 100 miles a day ( ), I don't see why this couldn't work. Think about the cost of wireless surveillance equipment +/- the capability to record footage. Ok, the bill would be large at first, but the long-term effects towards cost, and effectiveness, would be extremely beneficial to the angler, and to the tax payer alike.

Remember, it's a deterrent factor, not a prohibitive factor, because the cameras physically cannot stop someone from littering, etc. It's like a potential shoplifter going into a retail store that has hidden cameras placed around. He could steal, but he'll be awful nervous when he does it.

It's not like the fishermen will know what days the cameras could be manned. It would save a lot of walking, etc. for an enforcement official if all he has to do is access the camera to see roughly how many anglers are down at a spot, etc. before he decides if he wants to physically go down there, or he could use the footage against an angler if he sees the angler commit a wrongful act.

That's a good idea Mike. My concern about it though is that the states couldn't find the budget priority for it, and the sign and report programs are much cheaper. No doubt that would be cool though. Not only catch littering and fishing violations, but I bet they could get some funny good footage for TV's Spy Cam and other like shows . As for any cams placed in view as a deterent, they likely wouldn't last long before they get spray painted by masked bandits. They can't spray paint random binocular surveillance or the eyes of fishermen that have had it with river and fishing destroying scumbags. My $0.02.

RT

Sounds to much like "Big Brother" to me! Signs with a patrol officer checking from time to time should do the job. Does the word "over kill" sound familar?


Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

[ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: cowlitzfisherman ]

I had always wondered why the game wardens didn't just spend the last two weeks of October at Stevens creek on the Hump? They wouldn't have to travel very far, and the money the state could make from all of the snagging and littering violations there, could double the funding for enforcement from just that place alone? I had heard a rumor that the state "turns it's back" so to speak, at terminal hatchery fishing areas. I never understood why? The scum of the earth collects at places like that, and the Carbon river etc... during Chinook runs especially. Also, if I'm not mistaken, money from fines given, go to the municipal court district, and not directly to the state. Even so, Grays Harbor county could make enough extra money to hire deputy sheriffs to assist the state with game violations. If someone could please explain the logic of not capitalizing on this to me, I would greatly appreciate it!

As was brought up in previous posts, The violators are the ones who wouldn't read the signs, and think they can get away with whatever they want anyways. RT, I too applaud your concern for this subject, which angers all of the legitimate fisherman out there. Sadly, I think I am one of "the glass is half empty" types, when it comes to the subject of human nature.

One suggestion could be to "casually" let one of the dirtbags know that WDFW and the local law have ringers in amongst the ranks of fisherman where ever you just happen to be fishin'.

"My buddy/some guy got nailed yesterday," and you wouldn't want to see something like that happen to such a nice guy. Be careful not to pick out anyone as the cop undercover, as you may bring some unwanted attention to the guy you pointed at.

This has worked at John's Creek and at the mouth of the Satsop the few times I've tried it. Just a thought.


Andy

I THINK WE ARE STUCK !!!!! unless they are clear laws that are being broken and some one around to enforce them we are screwed.I always bring back more garbage than I take.There will always be JA's, we can only be responsible for our selves.

I do like the idea of the signs.I think you would be surprised at how much it would cost for the State to have these signs constructed.
Does anybody have an idea as to how much it would cost the State to construct and place such signs?

R.T.
No-one could possibly be more offended at the level (low) of civility exhibited by some of our more geneticaly disadvantaged bretheren. The trashing of our pristine areas makes me want to hurl. Unfortunately, people, and I use that term very loosely, tend to ignore signs in general and especialy those signs telling them to do or not do something they don't realy want to do. For proof of this, one need only look as far as the local highway. How many cars do you see actualy doing any where near the speed limit. Oh yes, we rationalize that the speed limits are set artificialy low for the purpose of revenue inhancement. The fact is that some poeple will do whatever it is they damn well please no matter if it endangers or inconveiniences others.
Unless or until social euthanasia is enacted, the only remedy as I see it, is for each and every one of us to stand up on our hind legs and let our displeasure at the rude, ignorant and boorish behavior exhibited by these unfortunate slobs be blatantly apparent. Perhaps a dose of social embarrassment will change some of these behaviors.
To remain uninvolved in this behavior modification exercise and ask the goverment to solve all of societies woes through the placement of signs, does nothing substantial and only serves to clutter up the countryside with more damn signs.
The place to start, is with your own children. Somewhere in the childhood of every litterer was a parent or parents who failed in their most basic responsibility. That of teaching their children the difference between right and wrong. You need only to pick up a newspaper or look at the TV news to see what I mean.
We can not afford to abdicate our responsibility in this area. Expecting the government to cure our social diseases can only end in failure.
So, everybody who is fed up about the trash and bad behavior has to just speak up to the offenders, just be carefull, some of the most geneticaly challanged individuals on the face of this earth could be standing on the bank right next to you.
grumpy

[ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: grumpyr ]