Here's a question for all of you who think you know something about Washington law.

On the Green River, (a tributary to the Toutle River) lies a state owned and operated salmon and trout hatchery. The only access to the state hatchery runs through and across Weyerhaeuser property off the 19 mile road. Weyerhaeuser has closed off entry to their property by claiming that it is doing so because of fire hazard. Yet a few special employees of Weyerhaeuser who have keys to locked gates above the salmon hatchery area are allowed to pass through the closed entry area to fish on the fish that are products of the state hatchery.

I do not know what the state has for easements, but it still is state controlled property and has been used by the general public for way more then eight years.

Can Weyerhaeuser, or for that matter any other private entity deny the public access to or from state owned property, or to harvest state produced fish from that state property? I have heard first hand from a local game warden that he gave out three tickets yesterday to people who had passed the closed area signs going to the state owned Green River Hatcher. How can a private party prevent a person from entry to a state owned facility?

What do you think is wrong with this picture?

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Question #1... Does the State have a valid, deeded right of way across the Weyerhauser land?? Or, is it an easement, with restrictions.

Question #2... Does anyone have enough time and money to take Weyerhauser to court, to prove the right of public access because of a prescriptive easement established by years of use?

Question #3... If you can prove the public easement, will it still stand up during fire season??

Don't know about the WeyCo employees fishing behind locked gates....my first guess is that it's perfectly legal.

TR

I could give an official opinion on this, but I'd have to charge you my usual rate of only $150/hour. The Rogue hit it on the head. There MIGHT be a prescriptive easement here, tho it's hard to tell from the facts presented. And you would, indeed, have to go to court to prove it.

I guess I'd look at this way: if you had a house on the river, would you want people traipsing through your back yard to get to your honey hole?

Now, the river itself is public property. Perhaps you should invest in a good sled and launch on public property.

P.S. You think you got it bad in Western WA, try driving across the Hanford Reservation some time where guys with Uzis will put the stop to you!

obviously steelydan doesn't know that boat traffic is not possible here. I do know that if weyerhauser employees were caught using the land for personal reasons they would be fired on the spot. My ol man has been cutting for them for ever and if he even thought about hunting on their land he would no longer be there. But its their property so they should be able to do whatever they want.

How about the hatchery employees? Can they cross Weyco land to go to work? How about the guy who lives at the hatchery? How is it somehow less dangerous for those guys to cross weyerhauser's land, but the average Joe is locked out? And what about the loggers? Arew they working right now or are they locked out too? The way I see it, If its still safe for the loggers and the hatchery employees to be up on the 19 mile road, then its safe for us to be up there too. Everyone with half a brain knows that this isn't about fire danger, this is about Weyerhauser finally finding a loophole in the system that will allow them to landlock yet another piece of public property..... And right at the start of the Fall run on the Green no less. I'm not an attorney, so I can't speak on the legality of what Weyerhauser is doing, I can say though, that what Weyerhauser is doing is ethically wrong. Anytime a big company uses its holdings as a way to bully the common man, it's wrong. Perhaps there is some kind of a class action that could be filed against weyerhauser. I mean, this is not the first time Weyerhauser has landlocked public land, and it should be illegal to do so. Anyhow, I hate weyerhauser for the things they do.... I hope that all the "Higher ups" in the company get prostate cancer.

This has been a problem for us hunters for years now. Did you know that Weyerhuaser controls twice as much land in this state then the WDFW? I say control because most of the land is ours, but they bought the timber rights. So they close it off to "protect" their trees. Yet bill the state when wildlife damages the trees. We get screwed six ways to Sunday and they get away with it. I would jump on a chance to get aboard a class action lawsuit. This is one of those situations that is border line legal because no one has stepped up and fought Big Businesss. On the land they do own, they pay VERY low taxes yet if we try to lower our taxes, the state stomps down on it. Kind of makes you wonder who is getting back door loving.

I would never wish cancer on anyone.

SteelieDan

As an attorney, I think that you already know the correct answer. Look at what you already have said; "I guess I'd look at this way: if you had a house on the river, would you want people trespassing through your back yard to get to your honey hole?''

Well what if those same people paid for that same property that you are going to use to get to that "honey hole", or they had bought that "honey hole"?

It really doesn't matter what you or I would "want", does it? What difference is there if you had a house on the river, and you invited all of your friends to go fishing on your property? Do you really think that the person(s) who owns the property leading to your house can legally stop (or keep out) all of your friends from using that same road to go fishing on the property that you have easements rights too?

There's really no difference is there? People who own property at point "A" cannot legally stop people who have rights to visit the property of point "B", or using the property of "B" (unless there is clear restrictive writen language in the easement of such property, right?

Glad to see that you at lease have the guts to speak up! Most attorneys don't, unless, like you have said, pay up the $150+ bucks!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

LZZ, your 1 insensitive s.o.b., that has obviously never seen anyone die of cancer, I lost my dad a year ago and I would never wish that on ANYONE, even you.

As a former employee of weyerhauser and one whose dad retired from them, I can say that closed lands are a way of life down here. I grew up in that area and fished and hunted there when I was younger and spent numerous hours on the Green due to my best friend being the hatchery superintendents kid. I have seen totally disrespectful practices from the general public on what they call, "their land". I can see why any company would close their land due to theft, neglect thru garbage dumping and vandalism in the form of fires and destroying property. I'm disappointed when they close land off to the public but I know why. I'm sure the general public wouldn't want strangers destroying their vehicles and setting their roses and fruit trees on fire in their own backyard. What really closed this area off was the eruption of Mt. St. Helens destroying the bridge across the N. Toutle leading to Cook Rd. Cook rd. was public and went straight to the hatchery. Cowlitz fisherman, some people have waded across the N. fork just above the mouth of the Green to get there. You might try this. But, once you get there, if the word gets out, there will be so many 'snaggers' in the area that I can't be there without wanting to throw them in the river and see how they like someone running a big ol hook their arse. Just my two cents. And LZZ, watching my dad battle throat cancer and seeing how he lives now breathing thru a hole in his neck and not being able to smell or taste like he used to tears me up. To wish cancer on anyone is just being a heartless SOB.

I know of two similar situations in Cowlitz county except that they involve public (DNR) land. One is on huge tract is just below the Lewis River hatchery to the north of the highway. A landowner subdivided a small parcel along the access road and the new homeowners pressured DNR to install a locked gate allowing only the homeowners access. A DNR employee responded to my complaint by saying that state access only applied to DNR, not the public. So the homeowners on 5 acre lots now have a huge hunting reserve for themselves, paid for bu us.

Wow, touched a nerve with the whole "wishing prostate cancer on the Weyerhauser executives" thing. Didn't mean to offend anyone, but at least you guys got an idea of how I feel about what Weyerhauser isdoing to us sportsmen.... Anyway, I watched one of my best friends die from cancer about six years ago and yeah, its real bad.... Bad enough that it is almost a befitting fate of those who'd keep us from excercising our right (Yes, I said right, not priviledge) to hunt and fish on public lands and to have access to those lands. We shouldn't have to cross the Friggin Toutle to fish the Green. There's a road right into the hatchery and a big ass parking lot that was built a couple of years ago and was payed for with OUR money! So screw Weyerhauser and their "Fire Danger", And screw the State of Washington for backing Weyerhauser up! Yeah, I was right the first time, they DO deserve cancer.

Oh, shucks. I forgot that you guys are in Western WA. In that case, my rate is $225/hour. I'll be posting my bill to the board later for prompt payment.

I feel obligated to make a comment on the original subject of this thread but really don't know the details so am hesitant to do so. Yes, it seems unfair to provide state funds for a hatchery program (and the associated access road, parking lot, etc.) without allowing for it's intended use. Still, if you can't see the relationship between increased use and increased risk, you need to get into a remedial math class. Frankly it seems the fault lies with the state sinking money into it without getting a guarantee for access, but that's just my gut reaction without knowing any of the specific details.

LZZ, no matter how many people you've seen die from cancer (and I haven't seen one, but I HAVE lived with two people that have gone through chemo and radiation, one of them an accelerated program that nearly killed him, but in the end saved his life), it's not a meaningful excuse to wish it on someone else.

All you've done is give me (and obviously a number of other people) the impression that you value your own recreational time over human life. Either that, or you figure you can say whatever you want, since this is just the internet. I doubt you'd stand up in a public forum and say the same thing. Please tell me I'm right.

Skywalker & anyone else who cares: If you dont think that I'd make these same comments in public, ie, down on the river bank or anywhere else for that matter, then you obviously dont know me and haven't followed my posts over the last year and a half. there's nothing I post on this BB that I wouldn't say in person, and anyone off of the BB who knows me in "real life" will attest to that. Pissing people off has never been a real concern of mine. As for the whole "cancer thing", BIG NEWS FLASH....... I was speaking figuratively! I was searching for some way to convey my distaste for Weyerhauser and evidently I hit the nail on the head..... Anyhow, the thread is about public access, not cancer. We're all grown men here, so let's dry our eyes and get beck to the issue of land access.... I swear, some of you guys are way too in tune with your feminine sides.

LIGHTEN UP! I am a cancer surviver and I didnt take offence even though that was a little harsh. I deal with the same problem on the tucannon with private land owners but I dont get mad cause like was said before all the JA's ruin it for the rest of us.

I have a couple questions. When was the last time there was a major forest fire on the west side of the cascades? Did we not have an above normal snow pack? Are we not within a few inches of normal rainfall for the year? Isn't Weyerhaeuser land a managed forest? Are not managed forest supposed to be less prone to forest fires? In my opinion Weyerhaeuser used forest fires in other areas of the nation to justifty their closing of lands. There are 1000's of acres of state owned public land that has been blocked off since July because Weyerhaeuser closed the only access to the land, by closing the 4200 corridor road.

Great question Trouter!

Should Weyerhaeuser be allowed to close off access to public (state property), yet get the benefits of fire protection from state funds? Whenever there is a forest fire, isn't it the state that's called in to fight them? How many of our access areas have been closed off due to state land trades with Weyerhaeuser or other large timber corporations?

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????