Maybe someone can supply some information about a project that seems to be happening on the Nisqually. It seems that there is some sort of steelhead redd count in the top couple of miles below the diversion. Orange painted rocks are being used to mark individual redd locations. I've spent the last few hours trying to find information, but can't seem to bring up any specifics. I'm not sure exactly who is involved but that is what I would like to find out. Seems like something WDFW or the Nisqually Nation would do. Only other option I thought was the Nisqually River Council.
Any help finding answers is appreciated so I can more fully do my part to help wild steelhead. Judging from locations (marked and un-marked) I'd say a fair amount of fish may be spawning in here now.

P.S heres your example of overharvest by sport anglers not tribal nets.

taked with tommy m the fish checker out of forks during steelhead seasons (he was springer fishing out of cathlamet) he said he has been on the nasty doing reed counts and everyone there was pleased by the overall numbers of reeds counted.

I would think the numbers should be back up considering its been closed for 14 years..Maybe its time that the state does the counts instead of the tribe..A C&R season sure would be nice! years back that was an awsome river I cant see where it wouldnt come back in 14 years!

Just curoius about your comment about Overharvest by sport fisherman ? How is that possible ? , if the river has been closed to sport fisherman for 14 yrs. than who would be harvesting these fish ? By the way have you ever been on the river during fall king salmon season and seen the amount of gill nets in the river ? Well I have, myself and two of my friends were there 2 years ago and counted 750 kings that were sold to the fish buyers that were backing thier trucks up to the banks so the gillnetters could throw the kings into the fish boxes,that was 750 fish in 2 hours, we couldn't stay there any longer as it was making is sick to watch that slaughter !, Oh by the way we did see one jack king about 4lbs. caught out of 25 Sports fisherman, but the gillnetters offered to sell the fish that the fishbuyers didn't want because the seals and sealions had chewed them up so bad and they evened offered to filet them for 2dollars a fish! Keep in mind this was One day ! Gee I wonder how many fish were caught by the gillnetters compared to the Over harvesting sports fisherman ?

don't forget that illegal netting took it's toll on these fish

the sport overharvest happened because there used to be no 5 fish yearly limit on native fish. the limit on the nisqually was originally 1 fish, but people complained and got it raised to 2 fish per day. also take into account the fishing and hunting lies. that's what got most of the people onto the river.

in about 3 years, the nisqually went from the top spring steelhead river in the state to nearly wiped out

Another post with the blinders on I'm afraid...Sportsfishermen could not and did not overharvest the Nisqually . The tribes and their nets did and do. Take those blinders off all you wsr fanatics. WSR is a good idea and is now to be in place everywhere so move on to the real causes of steelhead and salmon run collapses.....It ain't me babe.....

Okay, let's get the facts on the board. I know that I used to fish the Nisqually in March and April. I saw the number of fish caught by the sportsmen. I know that a number of guys that are smarter than I have said that sportfishing overharvest did in the Nisqually. But let's see some facts to back up each side of the story. If it is as clear cut as each side seems to think, it should be easy to back it up with some facts.

Oh, but they did. And so did the nets. Neither side has a finger they should be wagging in respect to the Nasty.

If you say otherwise.......then I'm afraid you didn't see the same thing I did years ago.

It's nice to hear they are making a comeback. I can't believe it's really been that long since it was open. Jeez.......I'm old. And grandpa must be downright fossilized.

I not sure what good it does to point fingers about this fishery at this time...While I was in college back in the 80's this was one of the most premier rivers in the area...sure would be great to have it back...However, If I had to cast blame somewhere, it would definately be towards the relentless netting on all runs...If memory serves, aren't chum counts critically low on this system as well?

last year seemed to be a terrible run for the chums(everything else as well) but usually there's quite a few of them in there. hopefully this year will be different.

if you want to point fingers at the nisquallies for anything, do it for the humpies. their netting practices practically wiped them out of that river. sportfishing is in NO WAY responsible for what happened to the pinks in the nisqually, you couldn't even keep them until a few years ago and then there were none to be caught. last summer was the first time i've seen a pink caught out of there in years

first off i am not trying to put blame squarely on side or the other because both absolutely had there impact. but it is my understanding, corroberated by a few people, that the nasty got netted out by a handfull of netters in the late 80's. i dont know for fact if this is true or not, but having also seen the nets in there in the fall it wouldnt surprise me. i also know and realize that overharvest by sporties is a contributing factor. just what i have heard and not neccesarily set in stone fact. steve

i've heard a lot about that as well. poachers with nets, selling fish on the black market

So nobody seems to know if it's the state or the tribe doing these counts? Or even the best way to find out what is going on?
Instead you take my bait and run with it. There was a time when 50 boats would equal 100 hens. But that is beside the point. The point is that this river could be on it's way back. Things look more optimistic now then they have been in the past. Even saw a fish roll this morning and I want info not another meaningless debate.

EG,
I'm almost positive that its the tribe that counts the redds. The lady who cuts my hair here on base has a boyfriend who is a fish-bio, and works mostly on the Nisko. Last time I talked to her she said the red counts where definately looking better this year. Next time I see her, Ill ask just who is doing the counts.
Also, how can you blame anyone for the "meaningless debate" when you were the one who dangled out the "overfishing by sporties" nugget. 50 boats = 100 hens....ok maybe, but how many hens do 50 nets equal? No matter what type of math you use nets kill more fish hands down than any group of sporties will anyplace or anytime.
RL

tommy works for the state unless he was sub contracted out.

WDFW is conducting the steelhead escapement estimate in the Nisqually River this season from the La Grande Powerhouse to the I-5 bridge. Prior to this season, the Nisqually Tribe conducted aerial counts, with financial assistance from WDFW. This aerial count alone was used to estimate escapement from 1980 to last season. The number of wild winter steelhead estimated to have escaped in 2002 and 2003 (using the historic method) was about 250, and 350, respectively. These low estimates made it necessary to re-evaluate currently methods.

Since late March WDFW staff and Nisqually Tribal staff have been counting steelhead redds from the air and on the ground. The methods used are similar to what is being done in the Green, Sky, and many other costal rivers. The consensus is that this method will give us a better idea of escapement in the Nisqually. The project has received tentative approval for next year but funding is not secure.

The high rate of terminal harvest, often as high as 65%, was sustained by both sport ant treaty fishers for years with no apparent declines. However, beginning in 1989 the number of fish returning to the river began to decline. During the 1980's the sport harvest often exceeded 2000 fish and once was as high as 3000. Not too sure who should get the most blame, but certainly the sport anglers have contributed. Im sure many of the readers of this have pictures of Nisqually wild steelhead at home on the wall.

This years counts are a bit higher than what has been reported by the Nisqually Tribe during the past few years. The escapement goal is 2000 fish and we are nowhere near that as of mid April.
So don't get to excited about an "improvement". It is likely the number has not changed..... just the way they are counted.

Good info fishcounter. Thanks for the input.

RL

Posted by Bill Herzog, 1/20/02,

Here's the link to the post...it's a pretty long one...mainly about the demise of the Nisqually.

2002 Nisqually Thread

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Not only did the Nisquallys not net in March and April back in the 80's...I don't think that they ever have.

kind of makes you wonder, what's going on with the fish since there's been no fishery for over 10 years there? anybody else think it could be really bad ocean survival?

Thank you FishCounter, that is exactly what I was after. If they do these checks all the way to LaGrande it makes me wonder how many will return to the Mashal. If you want my honest opinion about the lack of fish call it siltation. Prior to 1996 the river was dangerously full of sand and silt, specifically along the diverted stretch. Both Salmon and steelhead suffered but steelhead needing very specific gravel washes suffered even more. In the spring of 1996 one of those major 500 year floods came through (I believe water was slopping over the top of Alder Dam) and did a great job of flushing the system clean. This year would be a couple of spawning cycles after the flooding so there is no reason why fish should not be making a comeback considereing the gravel conditions. I'll probably try to do my own checking at some locations and see if I can volunteer some time to both learn and assist.
If this river ever does come back maybe it should be fly-only.