Ok, Although I'm fairly new here, I'd like to jump in the mix.
I see this forum seems to be the political arena, so here goes.
I see a lot of Bush bashing here.
I have been a registered Republican for some time.
I have been an avid outdoorsman all my life.
I have been an extremeley avid big game hunter for most of my 44 years.
The republican party has been an ally of the hunter. (or so it seems) Nearly all anti hunting organizations are in some way, either liberal or affiliated with Democrats.
That doesn't mean all Democrats are anti hunters.
The NRA has always backed the Republican party.
I see the attacks on Bush and the folks bashing him assume that those that elected him are in lock step with his beliefs.
I have voted Republican to back my hunting heritage.
I am a fiscal conservative (Bush is not)
I wish we had an articulate candidate (Bush is not)
I don't want a religious mandate.
I think this war is costing this country WAY too much in money and lives.
I do believe Bush shifted from the WMD defense to a Nation building policy.
I am pro choice.
I am concerned about the environment.
I could really care less about handguns and assault weapons.
I really don't want higher taxes to support people who don't want to work.
It seems most avid hunters are Republicans and most avid fisherman are Democrats.
I love both and am questioning the two major political parties??????

What do you guys think?

Check out where most that post here live. People in the NW moved here for a reason or their families came here years ago for the very same reason. There is a very provencial attitude here. It gets even stronger if you go to Alaska another isolated pocket of America.

Samonella: I think you are a thinker. If you want a discussion of your thoughts you may want to make a shorter list. I read yours and did no know where to start.

I did like your point about many thin king all republicans, and you could also insert democrats there are in lock step. I know they are not. i.e... Grandpa has been a solid R most of his life but has been very supportive of Chris and her fish policies.

I am a liberal and proud of if, but was very pleased by Dave Reichert refusing to vote with his party on the Shiva case. Not because I want the tube removed, but because I love to see any politician, R or D stand up for what they believe rather than be a rubber stamp for their leadership. I beleive D Brian Baird voted wityh the R and I applaude hiom for that as well. For the same reasons I respected Reagan, not so much so Clinton, and not at all Bush. I have great respect for someone like you who can see both good and bad in the party of their choice. Much less for those who seem to always need to defend their party no matter what actions they take.

As always, TK has it wrong. I didn't move here to rub elbows with fellow liberals. My Dad came here in 1940 because there were jobs at the shipyard in Bremerton.

great post-
it seems like lib /cons conversations so often fall into the trap of alligning with the media/party talking points and not very often on the issues that are really effecting us the most.
these two parties and those who affiliate with them throw so many stones at eachother and they both live in glass houses.

personally i am a liberal but a real one... not an alan colmes and i often surprise folks when i talk to them about what liberalism really is... we have been the victim of a very successful campaign to market "liberal" as anything wasteful, overly hopefull or anything wearing birkenstocks or increasing govt.

the truth is that your right to bear arms is a liberal guarantee

the bill of rights- was the most liberal official govt. doc at the time of creation

the US constitution is a liberal document

95% of govt growth is in administrative agencies (ATF, DEA, EPA) which is not a liberal growth... the admin agency is actualy a very conservative form of govt. where all checks and balances are deleted (combined) and if an ATF agent kills you accidentally you have next to nothing you can do other than sue them thru their court and their administrative law judge that they usually placed.

states rights vs fed- is out the window now or even reversed. clinton gave the speed limits back to the states while bush now commonly uverturns states initiatives and there are a bunch of other examples.

i am a liberal because i believe that - Business should be guided by govt. in a direction that is best in general for the people. not the people being guided in a direction that is deemed best for business.(as is happening with petrol.)

we are not in the top ten anymore for highest standard of living. only one country that has a higher living standard than our is more open market than us- singapore(and it is a classic example of big brother)
on the other hand every other country with a higher standard is more socialist than us.

the scariest thing about both parties is their desire to sell our assees out to the lowest bidder thru the WTO and the other brighton woods groups. when the revolution happens it will be against corporate armies and the republicans and libs will be on the same side

Dave,

I mispelled provincial. Its funny though that the mispellings def had a liberal meaning. I am good even when I make a mistake. It's not about liberal or conservative. Most true NWesterners moved up here for the isolation and the freedom that it brings.

Salmonella,
It is harder to find liberal hunters because that is something that is passed down from father to son or granfather to son. It generally takes time and commitment

Most of the exclusive fisherman I have met in this area where from broken homes and primarily raised by single moms.

over 60% of US marriages end in divorce... i didnt realize what an impact that would have on fishermen TK. now i know why i am a fisherman.... cuz mom left dad.

and the fact that most of these school shootings have been from conservative broken homes with prevalent guns must be the ones where dad left mom

now its all clear

Lupo,

Interesting that you compare liberal fishermen with deranged mass murderers

once again .... completely incorrect! qoute the comparison! TK if the mind is not par for the course of discussion...
stay off the course.
trying to have a real discussion with you is like trying to box a parapalegic
salmonella had a great post and it could be a nice discussion on what similarities we all have on either side of the line and you are ruining another thread with personal attacks and your usual garbage..

salmonella has good points and seems like an interesting person to discuss this with in an open and honest way..... does that have to be ruined ?

Lupo,

Quit crying and move the debate forward. Another symptom of males raised by single moms. They cry instead of fight.

Salmonella,

I probably appear liberal, but when I fill out magazine quizes on political bent, I come up moderate.

I bash Bush because I don’t respect leaders who either are, or appear, stupid. And to the extent Bush isn’t dumb, I believe he’s pretty close to evil with respect to my interests.

I have voted for Rs and Ds and Ls and Independents. In recent years I vote mostly Ds because the Rs seem to be taken over by right wing religious wackos and destroyers/degraders of the environment, both of whose intentions I greatly fear and oppose. I’m kind of a fiscal conservative and social liberal. I want government to manage money responsibly, and I want government to stay out of peoples’ lives beyond what is necessary to maintain a safe and stable society. I strongly support environmental conservation because we’ve only got one inhabitable planet, and I’d like my kids to have as good a chance as I have to live someplace clean.

I’m a life-long outdoorsman too. I used to hunt, but not since I got into fly fishing. I support the 2nd amendment, but not the NRA, thinking they’re a bit over the edge. I don’t think citizens should have automatic weapons, RPGs, grenades, bombs, nukes, etc.

If Rs got religion out of their politics, didn’t pander to corporate rule, and protected the environment, I’d vote for them. But if they did those things, they probably wouldn’t be Rs.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

"over 60% of US marriages end in divorce"

Actually the number is between 20 and 40% depending on who's study you beleive....

Keep in mind that out of the people who get 1 divorce, they are likely to divorce again. These 'repeat offenders' really skew the numbers. There are many other factors as well. Like any statistic, it is a very common one to spin to fit a particular agenda...

"If Rs got religion out of their politics..."


Come on, the Dems are just as much in it as anyone. They just prefer to target the mainly black churches, as that is a big part of their voter base..

Why do r's have to get religon out of politics and it is OK for libs try to remove religion and morality from society?

Yeah, yeah..........they're trying to remove morality from society.

Tom DeLay and I are sharing a hysterical laugh right now.

Phreak,

I haven’t observed the Ds trying to shove their religious convictions down my throat. I agree that the Ds look and sound just as stupid and insincere as the Rs when ending every speech with “God bless America.”

TK,

They don’t have to. I said I would vote for them if they did that, along with not pandering to corporate rule and began protecting the environment. I cast my vote conditionally based on what the candidate and his party stand for and promise to deliver. Or to vote against another candidate sometimes.

Dan S,

May I join you in that laugh?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Dans,

So the exeption is the rule?

I will give a hearty laugh at the sophist lefty notion that a baby is not a human life at conception. Talk about perverting morality for an agenda. Then chopping up that non human life for expierimental research. Ahh and people thought Frankenstien was just fiction.

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I do agree that most hunters are Republican, however I don't agree that most fisherman are Democrats.

It just seems that way on this forum because a lot of it's members have grown up in or been educated (indoctranated) in or around the extremely liberal Peoples Republic of Seattle whose politics unfortunately lean so far to the left that there'e actually a statue of Vladimir Lennon proudly displayed in the city.


The farther you get away from the Peoples Republic of Seattle you find that a lot of un-washed masses (people) out there in Jesus- Land (un-enlightened America outside of Fremont) are actually very level headed, have conservative values and beliefs and address issues with reasoned logic rather than feel-good emotion.....in other words they're Repubilcans. I run in to them all the time when I'm out fishing. It's not till I get back the Peoples Republic of Seattle that I see all the Dennis Kusinich, Hilda-Beast Clinton and Ron Sims fans.

When was the last time you saw Hybrid car proudly displaying a Darwin fish w/ legs symbol, Kerry/Edwards '04 and Vote Your Vagina! bumper sticker on it parked next to you out in the sticks alongside a river you fish?

SG,

"along with not pandering to corporate rule and began protecting the environment. I cast my vote conditionally based on what the candidate and his party stand for and promise to deliver. Or to vote against another candidate sometimes."

when do you think things will change? When someone else forces it and makes sure it's a Govt. mandate? Or maybe after a catastrophe of some sort? Seems to me the masses change things. People like you that refuse to live in the burbs and own vehicles, Require only organic locally grown foods, live off the grid and only use natural and self sustaining resources. Refuse to work for private business or govt. because after all you are gulity as the company you keep. Make no more than the mean annual income of the community you live in any surplus gets donated to charitable or worthy causes. But then again I suppose it's easier to sit back and dream of a better world and call people names and insist your way is better. I judge people by their actions not what they say. My bet is that guilt and complicity is as far away as the nearest mirror for all but a very few.

Yeah......yeah.........that's it.

Rory thinks people that think like him are level-headed. Shocking.

Hey Rory, if you dislike Seattle so much, then WTF are you going there?

This thread as originally posted is an example of why this forum could be great.

The rest of the thread illustrates perfectly why I'm not posting here any more.