Sounds great, and no I did not know thanks. Heck I thought that I would have to go east of the mountians to find a hatch. But then again I am not sure I would know what one looked like. Iam startint to tie my own and that is also great fun hav only tied as small as 16 so far. and a elkhair caddis, and caddis X emerger are two I learned to tie when I took a class for beginers at Kaufmans. Thanks again. Glenn