Mostly agree. The problem is that the issue of abortion needs to be discussed at the level that most people aren’t willing (or are unable) to discuss it at. Also, everyone wants to make the issue about “women’s rights” reactively after the fact, instead of discussing it as a philosophical issue that is more about morality, responsibility, integrity and before the fact.
Nobody wants to discuss why people engage in sexual behavior (intercourse) if they cannot bear the consequences of those actions. The Bible specifically indicates sex should be between a married man and woman, and largely for the purposes of procreation. People choose to conveniently ignore this naively thinking they have all the answers and can dance their way around any type of consequence. Godless, purposeless, indulgent, reckless, irresponsible and ignorant people endorse this.
Yeah, accidents happen. People make mistakes, but instead of doubling down on additional bad choices by having an abortion, (which comes with additional complications, health risks, depression, etc.) maybe it’s an opportunity in life to adopt responsibility and be a part of something bigger than your own selfish self. This includes fathers as well. I don’t like living in a society where people are encouraged to skirt responsibility under the guise of being a “woman’s rights” issue. This isn’t good for anyone. But count on the political left to make this about “woman’s rights” and that it’s a bunch of “old conservative white men” trying to have control over women’s bodies. Guess what? Old conservative white men founded this county. Maybe they should have a say in policies that affect the bedrock of our society. Oh yeah, and also count on the left to play the the emotional arguments about rape and incest, which accounts for less that 0.5% of abortions.
You know who is actually trying to control women’s bodies? Leftists like Salmo who want women to have abortions to maximize their sexual value for other men to use and abuse. Women who get abortions have higher rates of STI’s, considerably more sexual partners, more likely to be in poverty, more likely to be raped, more likely to have untreated mental health issues, and less likely to have or be in the process of earning an education.
Maybe society should go back to abstinence sex education. While it isn’t perfect, it does offer the best solution. Clearly, sex education with access to contraceptions is not working. There are missing pieces to the solution, and nobody wants to talk about it.
Streamer
Sure, let's discuss it ". . . as a philosophical issue that is more about morality, responsibility, integrity and before the fact."
Morality is a human construct. It is whatever a community of people decide it is. You may believe that sex outside of marriage is immoral, but the facts suggest that a majority of people either don't believe it's immoral or don't care. And that includes a large percentage, perhaps a majority even, of church going alleged Christians. Bringing God and the Bible into the conversation is just silly because many people don't believe in that God or the Bible or choose to give both low station in their lives. Personally I regard religion as irrelevant to the discussion.
The scientist in me tells me that sex is a biological imperative, not a religious one. So pragmatically speaking, let's set this morality, God, and the Bible aside since even the people who preach it don't act it, except possibly Mike Pence. And sex largely for the purpose of procreation? Who are you trying to kid? Have you been living under a rock? I don't know about you, but most men and women engage in sex for sport. And I don't mean that in a negative way. Among humans sex is part of an intimate emotional connection. It definitely serves a purpose other than procreation; it is indulgent, but it's only reckless, irresponsible, and ignorant when practiced outside that emotional connection.
Abstinence is the best solution only if you deny that humans are sexual beings. Sex education is a good idea because stupid puritans don't inform their kids and then act surprised or get mad when their kid either gets pregnant of gets someone else pregnant. Sex ed makes for fewer STDs and unwanted pregancies, but it doesn't prevent sex. Nothing does. Deliberately ignorant puritans refuse to get it. People have sex, always have, always will. Accept the reality and decide how to live in that reality instead of dwelling in denialism.
Having an abortion may be doubling down on a bad choice in your case, but others see it as a logical course of action to an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. I know my place in this arrangement, and it's not to judge another's personal decision in such a personal matter. Apparently you have the right to dictate how others, particularly women, should behave. News flash: you don't!
I too like a society where people take individual responsibility. I see the decision to have an abortion as a person exercising just that - personal responsibility.
I'll grant you that white men founded this country. Most weren't old. And the conservatives were the Tories, many of whom moved to Canada rather than be part of a revolution. Rebelling against the King is the direct opposite of conservative. (Conservative: resists change; slow to change.) And the Founders should have, and did have a say in the bedrock policies of the country. They also recognized the inevitability of change, and allowed for that. So that was then, and this is now. Women have been demanding equal rights at law for over a hundred years. Men, being the stingy bastards that they are, along with a lot of duped women, have resisted that change.
And just to be clear, it's stupidly offense to accuse me of wanting to control women's bodies to maximize their sexual value for me and other men to abuse. Talk about an unfounded cheap shot. Welcome to being a modern Republican for whom there is no bar too low that you won't cross it.
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