Sard, my intuition may be wrong, but it seems that even though you present yourself as being neither pro nor con, you actually come across as being very much pro. You consider non-empathy for Israel as being a "problem". Isn't that indicative of a pro position? So perhaps I'm not mistaking anything after all.

Back to the thread, conditions of victory and withdrawal... victory not achievable and never was, withdrawal should be sooner rather than later...see Vietnam. Also known to some of you as "cut and run" I guess, but I can't deny that's just the way I see it. Not that we've been defeated, just that we should not have pursued this course in the first place. If your strategy is fundamentally unsound, you don't need to be defeated to lose.