GBL,

Yes, I do get the picture.

"Bad spawning beds" - that's habitat, like I've been saying.

"Preditors in the river like Mergansers" - that's part of the natural ecosystem that I don't think is out of balance, except too few salmon for the predators.

"Open sea" - ocean survival varies from year to year, and it's not on the list of things we can manage.

"Peditors like seals, whales, other fish" - again part of a healthy natural ecosystem. There are exceptions like the Ballard Locks and LCR sea lions that are out of balance, but there's no indication that is an issue for Stilly chinook.

"Lack of feed during their growth cycle" - assuming ocean rearing conditions, those vary naturally, and healthy salmon populations survive both the good times and the bad times. And - it's not on the list of things we can manage.

"Polution" - equals habitat; just what I've been saying. Some urban and rural, but ag pollution I think is the main culprit on the Stilly.

"Gill nets (both Indian and non-indian)" - if you'll check the catch data provided by Smalma, you'll see that gillnet interceptions of Stilly chinook are inconsequential as I previously stated.

"Trawlers" - refer again to catch statistics and you'll note that trawl bycatch of Stilly chinook is inconsequential.

"Purse Seins" - referring to the same catch statistics, please note that PS net catch is inconsequential. The sport fishery catches very many more. Would you like to close all recreational fishing as I suggested would be necessary to meaningfully reduce harvests?

"El Nino" - a naturally recurring ocean condition that healthy stocks survive again and again, and kind of a "red herring" in this discussion.

"Foreign fleets" - well ya' got me there, but I already said Canada is a prime harvester of Stilly chinook, and WDFW has zero clout over their fishing. Shall the US declare war on Canada until they stop fishing the ocean?

"Interception on their way home, you get the picture" - that would be Alaska and BC, already discussed, altho I admit I thought the Alaska interception was less. However, AK acts like a foreign country when it comes to dealing with interceptions of WA salmon. Should we declare war on AK until it stops fishing the ocean also?
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Habitat in SE AK is not all perfect. Some is pristine, and some is trashed just like we do here in the PNW with forest practices. Salmon returns in AK have traditionally cycled with ocean conditions. Typically when marine survival is low for AK salmon, it is high for WA and OR salmon, and vice versa. Therefore there is no way I would or have or will say that AK should have record runs every year. You're making that up. Knock it off and read this entire thread. There is a wealth of information, and you could learn a lot if you are open minded.
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Fishkisser,

I didn't say how much time. It will stabilize if we let it and or if we take measures that facilitate it. Of course, society may choose to just keep on screwing it up. In that case, I'm wrong, but I choose to remain somewhat optimistic. It's the only chance we have to leave functional ecological options to a future generation.

Smalma,

As usual, thanks for joining the discussion. It looks like maybe the whole Stilly chinook conservation/rescue mission should be re-evaluated and re-designed. And maybe those fish really are already out of time. I'm not ready to pull the plug though.

Dave,

As Todd pointed out, we can try to improve the Stilly chinook stock status to reduce the impact on PS fishing. However, by definition, there is always a limiting stock, whichever is the weakest. The only way to avoid that is to have no weak stocks. Unfortunately, I don't expect that to ever happen. Maybe some day some stocks will recover and be healthy and not limit PS fishing, and the remainder will have gone extinct so that they don't limit fishing either. Not fun to think about, but it's certainly on the list of probably future alternatives.

FNP,

Well this thread is causing me to re-think what to do. We might be out of viable options. I agree with Smalma about the policy support of programs that give the appearance of doing something, even if that something is not substantial. I do think that some type of conservation hatchery intervention is necessary as long as trashed habitat is limiting recovery. I recognize that entails a risk. But I'd rather take that risk than pull the plug and eliminate options for my kid's generation to try to bring about recovery.

Todd,

Thanks also for helping out here too. You articulate the policy issues well.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.