Sg, I understand what you are saying but I don't think it is entirely accurate. Several fall Chinook populations in Puget Sound are still being harvested at MSY rates or greater. In the lower Columbia, it's still uncertain if the current harvest rates for Chinook can be sustained. If you play around a little with some Beverton-Holt models for many Puget Sound steelhead populations, you will find that under current conditions, incidental harvest rates of 5% -10% could very easily be MSY.