I pretty much agree with you Todd. Interesting though that a very large part of what is now generally perceived as fly fishing wouldn't qualify under the old WA fly only rules. As near as I can tell, it came to WA as Montana trout nymph fishing techniques migrated to the Yakima River trout fishery. Although the Yak isn't fly only, most people fly fish on that river. Next step is guys wanted to take the same nymphing techniques to other waters that included fly only, NF Stilly and Kalama, and maybe fly only lakes chironomid fishing. Used to have to fish chironomids without any lead or bead weight. Anyway, fly only regs changed to permit weighted flies and lead shot on leaders.

Todd, if you accept a "little bit" of weight, then where is the line? My take is that fly fishing isn't as black and white as it once was. Traditionally lead was not a part of fly fishing. To say that a little bit of lead is still fly fishing, but that a lot of lead isn't seems to make the discussion one about shades of grey, instead of a line that demarcates black and white.

OP,

It's all cool with Todd; it's just not fly fishing when it includes weight.

Who cares? I agree as long as we're taking about anyone else. I care about me and what I do. That's not to say I'm elitist. I fish the way I do mainly out of habit and also because I'd rather fly cast without lead than with it. I've done it a bit and fully intend to do it more. One of the main reasons is because I don't do as much trout fishing as I'd like, and from trout fishing we know that if nothing's hatching, nymphing is usually the right thing to do. And I don't have much experience at it, and trout aren't very forgiving of unnatural presentations or late hook sets. It was easier in AK where I could see fish take the bead; a lot harder fishing for unseen brown trout in Utah.

So even if, going along with Todd here, it isn't fly fishing, I'm OK with it because I've been trying to "broaden" my horizons as an angler and become more well rounded. I fish for salmon with herring, and it hasn't occurred to me to even try that with a fly rod. The upshot that makes this discussion interesting for me is that I expect to take more trout fishing trips, and sometimes nymphing will be the only way to get a strike, so that's why I want to learn more about it. Unlike S. salar, I didn't move anywhere to swing for steelhead; I've been doing it most of my life now.

S. salar,

Yeah, swingers fish for players, but I'm still of the persuasion that most if not all undisturbed steelhead are players, unless water conditions are adverse. A potential value of nymphing beads is when you're stuck fishing water that's just getting hammered, and all the players have been hooked or at least disturbed. As steelhead populations continue to decline, and the angler population continues to increase, undisturbed steelhead are going to be increasingly uncommon, unfortunately.

Cobble Cruiser,

Lucky for you to be so easily satisfied! But really, so long as you're catching? I'm assuming you have standards, like hook and line as opposed to including explosives and gillnets. I really like gillnetting; it's more challenging than some think; and it usually does a reasonable job at catching. But it takes a big pile of fish to "make a good day," and then you have this pile of fish to deal with. Part of the attraction of less effective methods of catching fish is that a lot more social benefit can be had from a given number of fish. Just because someone is catching fish doesn't make it all good. I mean, consider the treaty fishermen who are gillnetting a few tote loads of steelhead. Hey, they're catching fish, so it's all good, right? There is value in being harder to satisfy.

Sg