hey brian, thanks for the info, but i'll be darned if i aint confused about how you presented that idea..lol, since im kinda new to plunking, im not sure how to rig it that way, and did you say its effective on kings as well as steelies? and are tadpolly's effective on kings? i have a few but alot more warts and hotshots..maybe if you can find a illistration on settin that up, i would like to see it..thanks again ***schitzo***