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#1009564 - 05/30/19 07:10 PM Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here?
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1134
Loc: Tacoma
Yesterday this a tribal release came out stating they are going to fish the Green river and Elliot Bay for steelhead. I have attached the release below. What interests me is that the total sports catch is was 108 fish for 2016 and I believe around 70 for 2015 and 91 for 2014. The release allows for up to 3 nets in the river or 1200 feet in the inner bay, starting in June and with no mesh size and no targeted number or expiration date listed. With the low numbers, I really am wondering if its steelhead they will be targeting and what happens to any by catch.

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#1009567 - 05/30/19 08:27 PM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5479
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
This would be for summer steelhead which are not, if memory serves, part of any DPS for ESA. The conservation goal, for the winters, would be to remove the summers. They may also get some pinks and early Chinook.

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#1009573 - 05/30/19 11:59 PM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1134
Loc: Tacoma
No problem if they are chasing their share of summers, I just can't believe they would ever make the effort. Even just digging clams they probably would make a whole lot more money.

Here is the release
FILING ORGANIZATION : MUCKLESHOOT TRIBE

AFFECTED ORGANIZATIONS : NWIFC/TRIBES/WDFW

REGULATION NUMBER : 192003

DATE ADOPTED : 29 MAY, 2019

REG. SUPERCEDED/MODIFIED : NONE

CATCH AREA : 10A (INNER ELLIOTT BAY) 80B (DUWAMISH/GREEN RIVER) FISHERY TYPE : COMMERCIAL

SPECIES : SUMMER STEELHEAD

LEGAL GEAR : GILLNET ONLY, 1200 FT MAX. NET LENGTH (BAY) AND 300 FT MAX. LENGTH (RIVER)

EFFECTIVE DATE : 1 JUNE, 2019

FISHING SCHEDULE : OPEN 6 AM SATURDAY JUN 1 AND WILL REMAIN OPEN UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE RESTRICTIONS : SEE BELOW

1. REMAINS CLOSED OUTSIDE A LINE FROM PIER 91 TO THE LIGHT AT THE DUWAMISH HEAD. 2. RIVER REMAINS CLOSED UPSTREAM OF THE “INTERURBAN TRAIL FOOTBRIDGE” WHICH IS JUST UPSTREAM OF THE HWY 167 BRIDGE. 3. RIVER: MAXIMUM OF THREE NETS PER BOAT FISHER OR THROW NET FISHER BAY: ONE NET PER BOAT

JUSTIFICATION : HARVESTABLE SURPLUS SIGNED, MIKE MAHOVLICH, FISHERIES BIOLOGIST

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#1009574 - 05/31/19 04:19 AM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
Myassisdragon Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 1134
Loc: The Wet Side
They also had authorized the NI sport fishery to begin fishing the Green May 25th to take summer run Hatchery steelhead, with C&R of all wilds.

No waiting until the first Saturday of June to open the river this year........
_________________________
Hmmm

- "Wild steelhead were more numerous this year than they were in the 1970s" ( ITYOOL - 2015 )

- "It's past the time to "play nice", after all, they are pooching us royally."

D'uh!

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#1009577 - 05/31/19 07:06 AM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5479
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Sometimes, the Tribes will open a fishery that they know will be utilized by just a few folks, rather than a true "full fleet" opening. As with all fishermen, some folks have specific fisheries. locations, or methods. Assuming that the catches are as accurately reported as the NI side, they will be able to respond if "too many" are caught or if something unexpected turns up.

This may be just one or two fishermen. Way back, and on another river, I talked with some women who only fished river gill nets; maybe just setnets. For them, an opening in the marine waters was not an opening.

And, for those who see that the "Indians always go first", this opening is for June 1, after the recs hit the river.


Edited by Carcassman (05/31/19 07:07 AM)

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#1009686 - 06/02/19 11:04 AM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12530
This looks like a design to remove those alien Skamania hatchery steelhead, which some would have us believe are the root cause for the depressed state of the native wild winter steelhead. While the presence of hatchery steelhead don't do the wild population any favors, I think this is a regulation that is more for show than for any actual effect. I wonder if any Muckleshoot tribal members will actually participate in this fishery, considering its poor prospects for success. I think this also might be a move by the MIT to persuade WDFW to discontinue stocking Skamania steelhead in the Green, since there is no benefit to the wild population and no real, measurable benefit to the MIT.

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#1009697 - 06/02/19 03:26 PM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4653
Loc: Carkeek Park
Anyone know if the Green had summerruns prior to the introduction of the Skamania fish?
SF
_________________________
Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2019 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter
979

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#1009704 - 06/02/19 04:42 PM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5479
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The actual record for summers in PS begins and ends on the Stilly, I think with the possibility of Elwha summers too. There was a strong summer run there. Logging leaped take care of that. There are rumors of summers in some of the other systems but by the time we really started looking they were close to gone.

My own personal belief is that winters are primarily progeny of the coastal rainbow (Irideus) that invaded and outcompeted the red bands (gairdneri) that were here before the coastals but after the cutthroat; all of this occurring after the last glaciation. Basically, the red bands outcompeted the cutts, who were pushed into headwaters. Then, the coastals outcompeted the redbands. That is why, for whatever reason, most of the summers are in redband territory. It's not a perfect idea, as we have Deer Creek and the Hoh but is seems too make sense fro 30,000 feet. Also possible that the abundance of coho may have had a hand in it.

At the same time, Skamania fish have shown a strong ability to go wild and then not only interbreed with the winters but actually evolve in the new rivers to something different genetically from a Skamania. Must be a native.....

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#1009705 - 06/02/19 05:03 PM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
RUNnGUN Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 914
Did a drive around on the Green today hoping to find or hear of some success. NADA! Drove the golf course to Green R. Gorge park. Talked to 6 guys no bites, 3-4 boat trlrs from Whitney to 18. Would liked have talked to them. Water low already @ 550. Plant=30,000. Early opener this yr like it used to be back in the 80's so was curious if it produces anymore. Guess not. Wonder what the plants were back then? We used to float Mem Day weekend and kill em. Then head into the gorge as the water dropped and still do well. Can't find that data? WDFW numbers don't go back that far? Anyway, lots of memories seeing the area again, pushn 20 yrs. since I gave up on it. Lots of development and NO TRESPASSING where I used to get access. Wonder if the tribe is getting any in the nets?


Edited by RUNnGUN (06/02/19 05:17 PM)
_________________________
"After fishing for Steelhead for over 40 years, Steelheading as I know it is gone in Puget Sound!"
ME

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#1009739 - 06/03/19 09:29 AM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: stonefish]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12530
Originally Posted By: stonefish
Anyone know if the Green had summerruns prior to the introduction of the Skamania fish?
SF


Native summer steelhead were not present in numbers that constitute a "run" in rivers south of the Snohomish basin. Endemic native wild summer run steelhead occur in the SF Nooksack; Cascade River, Finney, and Day Creeks in the Skagit basin, Deer Creek in the Stilly, NF Skykomish, and Tolt River in the Snoqualmie basin. Oh, and likely the Skokomish in Hood Canal. I think that's it.

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#1010125 - 06/07/19 05:45 PM Re: Anyone want have an idea on what is going on here? [Re: Krijack]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1134
Loc: Tacoma
I sent off an email to the area biologist to see what there expected return was. I was told they expected 300 fish in total, of which 100 is needed for brood stock. That is off of a 60000 smolt plant, for a .5 percent return. To put that into perspective, out of 200 fish planted, one is expected to come back. I guess the 100 or so fish harvested every year equal about 100% of the sports man's expected harvest. I knew there was a reason I gave up on this fishery years ago.

He did state that there are a few tribal fisherman who do like to go after summer runs and he expected them to do some fishing, so I guess that explains the opener.

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