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#1009794 - 06/03/19 10:30 PM WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 895
Loc: Graham, WA
WDFW REFUSES TO TURN OVER PUBLIC RECORDS TO THE TWIN HARBORS FISH AND WILDLIFE ATTORNEY, RESULTING IN RULES COORDINATOR SCOTT BIRD BEING SUBPOENAED.

READ THE LATEST UPDATE: CLICK HERE


Make sure and read the letter that THFWA Attorney sent to WDFW lawyer Grossmann

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#1009813 - 06/04/19 07:43 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Tug 3 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 108
I think we're about to see if WDFW is above the law. It sure doesn't look good for the "new" WDFW Director, does it? Doesn't look good for the AG who wants to become Governor either.

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#1009815 - 06/04/19 08:31 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12493
I am dumbstruck by WDFW and AAG Grossman's refusal to comply. They have cast their votes in opposition to open government quite clearly.

Is their any reason why we shouldn't lobby the Legislature to abolish WDFW and just start over with a new fish and wildlife agency that is designed to serve the public that funds it?

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#1009816 - 06/04/19 08:46 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
Official Darkside Fucktard Whisperer

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 2465
Nothing to see here.
Just move along and collect your pension.

Such BS.

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#1009819 - 06/04/19 09:01 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Larry B Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2651
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Tug, you've left out the WDFW Commissioners who fired Director Unsworth and hired Director Susewind and who ostensibly provide guidance on policy matters to the Director for his implementation.

So, the question I have is whether AAG Grossman has been actively engaged with the Commission and whether the actions by WDFW personnel are consistent with recommendations by AAG Grossman as blessed by the Commission?

If the answers are YES then the Commission is a part of the problem and Salmo's rhetorical question needs to be seriously considered. If the answers are NO then it is incumbent upon the Commission to hit the RESET button and fulfill its responsibility and do so quickly. If they can not or will not step up then Salmo's question comes into play.

As of this morning there is still no agenda posted for the 14-15 June Commission meeting in Port Angeles: https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2019.

Part of the solution or part of the problem??

Crisis of confidence in the offing!!
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1009820 - 06/04/19 09:30 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 2856
Pretty evident they think they're above the law. Let's hope they're wrong about that.

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#1009823 - 06/04/19 11:26 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Larry B]
Tug 3 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 108
Larry and Salmo,

We (citizens) politically supported the WDFW Commission structure after combining WDF and WDW in the mid 90's. Good concept, but overall hasn't worked worth a darn. The Commission is insulating the agency, not directing it by good policies. The staff hasn't been held accountable, or has it? I agree that Salmo's question/suggestion to consider abolishing the structure of WDFW. Too many leaders of organizations have continued to wring their collective hands when faced with any possibility of the Commission structure being abolished. Well, where has it gotten us? I think it's about as bad as it gets. Incredibly poor service. Incredibly poor biology in fisheries management. An arrogant staff that thinks they're above the law, and an agency attitude of "We'll get even with you for disagreeing with us.".

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#1009824 - 06/04/19 11:29 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The unfortunate thing is that the solution will involve a massive house-cleaning. The Nuremberg Defense of "I was just following orders" should have no standing because if you were willing to break the law because your boss told you to then I think personal integrity is lacking. Like Salmo suggested, a whole reset.

But, do you want to trust this Legislature to come up with solution? In a short time-frame? Look how long McCleary took and that was just money and not a whole organization.

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#1009834 - 06/04/19 04:41 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12493
I like having a citizen Commission. The Commissioners seem accessible, although I think they made an egregious mistake following Grossman's advice to approve non-transparent government - the secret meetings issue. I am equally bothered that citizens are paying to sue WDFW to comply with public law, and that we, as citizens, are also paying WDFW's legal tab trying to avoid complying with public law. Talk about a screwed up situation.

I worked for a couple public agencies. I advised people to never request information from me through formal channels - called FOIA for the feds. Doing so automatically kicked in a 2-month delay while the paper trail process played out. I suggested that they just come by my office, door's open, and they can go through my file cabinets anytime; just put things back where they belong. Only exception was attorney-client privileged info. I cannot fathom why any public servant opposes open government.

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#1009838 - 06/04/19 04:53 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
MPM Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 731
Loc: Seattle, WA
Well, I've been a little bit skeptical as to whether this suit will help or hurt, but I just donated. Give 'em hell!

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#1009849 - 06/04/19 05:37 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I always shared information/provided data. But, I know of situations where a WDFW employee had to threaten to filed a PDR in order to get data from another program.

To suggest an alternative to Salmo's suggestion of the Leg abolishing WDFW and creating a new agency, how about putting the resource management functions (seasons, stock assessment, etc) into DNR and the HPA activity into DOE?

The Commissioner of Public Lands is an elective position and they way they manage the resources could make for some interesting elections. Should also cut down on some duplication of staffing at the "leadership" level.

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#1009887 - 06/05/19 08:51 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12493
CM,

The Legislature was looking at combining WDFW, DNR, and Parks just a couple sessions ago. The fishing interests, including sportfishing, pushed back, thinking that sportfishing interests would become even further diluted than they are now.

I probably come across as blowing off steam, and maybe that's what it is, but the Department presently has me so ticked off on three things that I have to sound off.

Sg

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#1010536 - Yesterday at 10:54 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Here's another idea about what needs to happen to WDFW. I voted for the merger/commission because I thought it would reduce the politics in salmon management. Oops.


Make the Director and Commission elective. Director full time and elected statewide. Commission (6) 3 from eastside and 3 from westside with six year terms. Elect 2 (one each side) every two years. Commissioners are part-time, paid same as the average legislator plus expenses.

Director is also a commissioner so there is an odd number for voting. To pass, there must be at least one vote from each side of the state.

This would make the whole agency at least sensitive to the desires of the voters.

WDFW has been so disappointing lately.

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#1010540 - Yesterday at 05:04 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Carcassman]
eddie Online   content
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2166
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
I like the idea of the Commissioners being elected, but I think the Director should be appointed by the Commissioners. There is already so much politics involved in our Fisheries, having a Director being elected would just make it worse, IMHO.
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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#1010544 - Yesterday at 07:03 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: eddie]
Tug 3 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 108
Have to disagree with you, Eddie. What you suggest is too near the situation we have now. Let's elect the Director and the Commission, but shrink the Commission to a manageable size.

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#1010546 - Today at 05:15 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
eddie Online   content
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2166
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
Tug, my biggest concern is that the electorate will have no real clue of the complexities of the issues facing salmon and all the other critters that WDFW has jurisdiction over. Therefore we will end up with the one that "sounds" best or "looks" best.
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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#1010547 - Today at 07:13 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3059
Loc: Bothell, Wa
If they were all elected offices who would give the most money to the campaigns? The cowboys, the indians, the processors or the buyers/sellers?

Sure as hell wouldn’t be those holding fishing licenses!
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#1010548 - Today at 07:26 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: BroodBuster]
Tug 3 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 108
Guys,

I'm an idealist, I guess. You're likely right about the financial contributions, etc,, but I'm looking at our present situation at WDFW and it is worse than bad. With an election we could still vote them in or out of office. As an example the Department of Natural Resources has an elected head, and she was not elected by the timber industry.

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#1010551 - Today at 07:45 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Larry B Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2651
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
I, too, am appalled by recent seemingly irrational decisions by the WDFW Commission. That said, I am also more than old enough to remember why the current Commission format was established and how that occurred.

It is my opinion that there is no perfect system and that the current problems are more with some of the people appointed to the Commission than with the format itself.

By the way weren't we to have had a new Commissioner appointed by that guy (too busy) running for President some time in January?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1010552 - Today at 08:45 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12493
Broodbuster makes the more salient point. The elections would go to whomever "buys" them, and recreational angling would come in dead last, just as it does now. I agree with Larry that there is no perfect system, unless I was named Fish Czar, of course, but the current format is likely among the best. We just need a governor who makes quality rather than political appointments, and a Senate Nat. Res. Comm. that timely confirms the appointments.

Meanwhile, we get the fishing we fight for.

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