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#1020416 - 01/20/20 05:31 PM LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3367
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Links in press update do not work ( names at the bottom of the press release ) so this is Advocacy the website. http://thfwa.org/legal-issues The press release is front and center and the links work, just scroll down and click on the name. The Advocacy is challenging the legality of agency processes and deposing staff under oath. These links are to the testimony of the Director, Ron Warren, and agency staffer responsible for the WAC process.

Enjoy!



January 20, 2020, Update #7 WDFW Director and senior staff deposed

For a general understanding of the litigation and the steps underway in the case Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy v- Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife, review the previous updates shown below.

The time consuming effort to establish the record for the upcoming trials in the cases that allege WDFW violated the Opening Meeting Act (OPMA), Administrative Procedures Act (APA) and the Public Records Act (PRA) during its North Of Falcon (NOF) salmon season setting in 2018 and 2019 is continuing on track. As for documents, WDFW is required to produce the documents with each page stamped with an individual number. Todate, WDFW has supplied thousands of pages of documentation to the Advocacy legal team and the discussion is underway as to which documents are to be selected into creating the trial record. If the two sides are unable to decide what goes into the trial record, a hearing is set and the presiding judge decides.

The second form of evidence comes in the form of testimony. In anticipation of calling witnesses to the stand during upcoming trials, the Advocacy has completed depositions of WDFW Director Kelly Susewind, Assistant Director Ron Warren, and senior staffer Kyle Addick. The depositions todate have been cordial and polite as each of individuals were simply asked to explain their roles in how seasons were set.

Since WDFW has announced a schedule for NOF in 2020, the Advocacy has been repeatedly asked if the litigation would have an impact on this year's season setting. The answer is any changes would be up to WDFW. The trials underway are expected to be completed in the spring and summer of this year as the 2020 seasons are in final stage of adoption if not already adopted.

Those who would like to read the depositions to gain greater understanding into how salmon seasons in WA are actually set can select the name below to be linked directly to the transcript of that individual's testimony.

Kelly Susewind

Ron Warren

Kyle Addick


Edited by Rivrguy (01/20/20 07:45 PM)
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#1020424 - 01/20/20 07:45 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
OncyT Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 463

On your website, the link that is supposed to take you to Ron Warren's deposition takes you to Kyle Addick's deposition. I thought that perhaps Kyle's link would take you to Ron's deposition, but it takes you to Kyle's as well. Ron's is not available.

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#1020425 - 01/20/20 07:47 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: OncyT]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3367
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Thanks I will let them know & they said thanks and fixed it. Link works now.


Edited by Rivrguy (01/20/20 08:59 PM)
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1020430 - 01/20/20 09:44 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Lifter99 Online   content
Smolt

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 87
Ron is still trying to hide.

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#1020432 - 01/21/20 12:46 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12507
Frawley's a pretty sharp guy.
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Long Live the Kings!

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#1020439 - 01/21/20 01:01 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5732
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Interesting read. When Warren was describing the E-reg process it reminded my of my first one. Tribal bio called in with test fishing results first thing in the morning. I hand-carried the approved e-reg to the Code Revisor at about 3 PM that afternoon. I was a Bio 3. Since all the bios and above were a Public Hearing I did all the drafting, carrying around, directors approvals. About 6 hours from start to finish. Now? How many days?

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#1020461 - 01/22/20 09:40 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Graham, WA
Some very interesting information is brought out in the depositions.

Did anyone else catch the timeline on the 2018-2019 season setting?
The whole charade that WDFW and the Commission has perpetrated that "the public" is an equal partner in the process is completely blown apart.

And unless you happen to be one of the "good ol boys" in the fish mafia, your comments and suggestions ARE NOT even considered. Truly, the PUBLIC NOF meetings are window dressing to create the illusion that recreational anglers have any real say in the process.

The other thing is J.T. Austin from the Governor's office. Director Susewind alludes to the fact that she attends almost all the Tribal meetings, and anything the Department puts forth is run through her. I think his words were: "the tribes have faith in her". What that translates to is:
The WDFW Director takes his orders from the Governor (through JT Austin) on anything that has to do with the tribes. So we see, yet again, the Tribes have undue influence over the entire fish management program. And let's remember, The Commissioner's serve at the Governors pleasure, and they in turn are supposed to oversee the Director. Do you see the connection here, and WHY things are always falling the way they do?

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, and many of you guys know this stuff already.

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#1020466 - 01/22/20 11:11 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Bay wolf]
rojoband Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 259
Sorry I reread the links, and don't see what you're getting at BayWolf. I actually see that they keep the people who ask to be kept in the loop...in the loop. The Adicks deposition is very informative, probably the best of the 3, as it spells out the process over the entire year from forecasting to end product. While I don't know all the exact legal check boxes, after forecasts are made, weak stocks are identified by the two sides, the haggling begins. Daily conference calls each PFMC meeting w/ multiple user groups (ocean/willapa/Puget Sound groups) is super useful (albeit I wasn't aware of, so better advertising of that tidbit should have been used).

If you could spell out what you mean BayWolf I'd be interested to hear it, either here or a PM as I see this as a complicated process that the state seems to keep folks in the loop as things progress almost as best as possible.

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#1020479 - 01/23/20 08:33 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Graham, WA
Rojoband...don't drink the koolaid that WDFW is serving.

Please, read this article which has first hand knowledge on what transpired at the 2018-19 NOF. You will see that "Public" input and full transparency in negotiations is a charade.

Article on the Hotel Backroom deals at North of Falcon.

The process is broken....

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#1020485 - 01/23/20 10:38 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5732
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As Baywolf and others have noted, the process used by WDFW to determine and set the regulations does not appear to comply with State Law. That is what the case is about. Basically, is the process legal?

Regardless of the complexity, if it isn't legal then a defense in court to a citation is that "this WAC is not legal, so I couldn't have violated it".

WDFW has known, for decades, that the rules regarding WAC adoption and the process they use do not fit together.

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#1020493 - 01/23/20 11:47 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Carcassman]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 200
I think the difference between your argument and Baywolf's is that you are pointing to a technicality in the law, which may very well be found to be violated. Baywolf is making the leap that this technicality is resulting in a conspiracy.

Your conclusion being true (perhaps) does not make his true.











Edited by JustBecause (01/23/20 11:49 AM)

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#1020495 - 01/23/20 12:07 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: JustBecause]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3367
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Technically is maybe a bit off. The NOF process was designed to appear to comply with APA process. Appear is the word that is the crux. Reality is the NOF process never met legal standards nor was it intended to but it was intended to appear it did. As time went on and things changed it simply ended up farther from compliance and just got way to obvious and was challenged. The only time WDFW changes is when a judge says " you shall ".


Edited by Rivrguy (01/23/20 12:07 PM)
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#1020503 - 01/23/20 12:38 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: JustBecause]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 2962
Originally Posted By: JustBecause
I think the difference between your argument and Baywolf's is that you are pointing to a technicality in the law, which may very well be found to be violated. Baywolf is making the leap that this technicality is resulting in a conspiracy.

Your conclusion being true (perhaps) does not make his true.











Have you ever found technicalities to be exploited for honest or forthright reasons? Whether it's a conspiracy or not, it's clear the Co-Managers aren't being straight with us. That needs to be fixed, whether you think so or not.

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#1020526 - 01/23/20 02:12 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5732
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I think that most believe that the Co-managers are being straight with the State, but the State is not telling us (recs) what is going on and why.

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#1020540 - 01/24/20 08:17 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Carcassman]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2601
Loc: right place/wrong time
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
I think that most believe that the Co-managers are being straight with the State, but the State is not telling us (recs) what is going on and why.

I, for one, do not believe that the Tribes, (realistically, there are no Co-managers) are being honest with the State. After all what is the State if it is not the populace? I also do not believe that our State government, and pretty much all government entity's that are involved are being honest with our recreational fishers and hunters.


Edited by blackmouth (01/24/20 05:26 PM)
Edit Reason: I didn't want to leave anyone out.
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#1020541 - 01/24/20 09:26 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1175
Loc: Tacoma
After being told that they essentially put a nix on opening the Skok, but refusing to discuss it, I have little faith that the Tribes do not use their perceived leverage to their advantage. There is no reason to hide unless there is something to be hid. My gut feeling is that the State does not want to face the facts at times, and it is easier to blame the tribes. The Tribes use this secrecy and desire not to be accountable to be able to negotiate, at times, to their advantage. In the end, it works to the advantage of the State in that their mismanagement and lack of environmental stewardship are not broadcast, and to the advantage of the tribes in that they can, at times, swing things to their advantage. The general public, in the end, is taken advantage of and lied to, which is just fine with most politicians.

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#1020543 - 01/24/20 09:46 AM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
Official Darkside Fucktard Whisperer

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 2911
Pathetic.

At least Gov Lowery got some drinking and loving done.

Our current gov is just wasting our air.

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#1020565 - 01/24/20 09:56 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Graham, WA
Conspiracy
NOUN
a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.


North of Falcon WDFW / Tribal Negotiations:

A group who meet behind closed, locked doors, void of any audio or video record and without any public oversight. Have one party use threats, either direct or implied, to coerce the other party into agreements that emphasizes harvest over conservation. Then, keep the details of the negotiations secret from those who are directly affected.

This I suppose is what you meant by my “leap”?

There are of course, the legal questions that the actual process bring, and those are what are being addressed in the lawsuits.

Full and complete transparency throughout the entire management process is what ALL the citizens should expect and demand from ALL the parties involved in the process. Rather than be open and honest, they choose to hide and deceive. Rather than be a force for bringing everyone together to work collectively, they choose to continue to pit one group against the other so they can control the narrative.

Who is “they”? Just ask who has the most to gain from keeping things secret?

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#1020600 - 01/25/20 07:42 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Bay wolf]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3367
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
The latest salvo. I found Miranda Wecker's paper interesting. Cannot wait for Pat's. Use the Advocacy link to read the documents as a couple did not work.

January 25, 2020, Update #9 "Summary Judgement" filed in legal fight over North of Falcon salmon season setting

On December 24, 2010 WDFW filed a Motion For Summary Judgement requesting the court to stand down one of the claims in the Advocacy complaint alleging WDFW is violating the Open Meeting Act (OPMA) during its North of Falcon (NOF) process wherein salmon seasons are set behind closed doors out of the view of the public. On January 24, 2020, the Advocacy filed a "cross motion" response to WDFW's motion. The dueling motions are currently scheduled for argument before the court at 9 AM on February 7, 2020 before presiding judge Erik D. Price in Thurston County Court in Olympia.

The response filed by the Advocacy legal representative Joe Frawley of the Olympia firm of Schefter & Frawley requests the judge rule to reject WDFW's motion and enter a ruling in favor of the Advocacy view that WDFW has violated the OPMA. The move by WDFW does not effect the other legal complaints alleging WDFW also violated the Administrative Procedures Act (APA) and the Public Records Act (PRA).

The response filed by Frawley is a very strong document worthy of reading. It explains how the 9 member Fish & Wildlife Commission was established by a vote of the people in 1995 with the direct intent of increasing public transparency over the management of fish and wildlife in the state of Washington. To the contrary, argues the Advocacy, the NOF process utilized by WDFW has evolved to the opposite at the expense of the public and demise of the resources.

The motion cites from the depositions conducted of WDFW senior staff earlier in the process. Former Chairperson of the Fish & Wildlife Commission Miranda Wecker provides a declaration attached to the Advocacy response that provides a history of the demise of the public transparency in the NOF and the public's growing dissatisfaction with the NOF process as the fish populations continue to decline. Pat Patillo, who recently retired from WDFW and was the lead negotiator for NOF for a number of years also provided a declaration confirming that the public can not meaningfully participate in NOF.

The documents are available for viewing on the Advocacy website at http://thfwa.org/legal-issues. The Advocacy's cross motion is also directly linked https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SPgBKdrbLqkywoIvSv1tmfW0fz6zG8UI/view The declaration of Miranda Wecker is https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g9QV_fGcIWdZdotuti00RcEYUrbYNGl1/view The declaration of Pat Patillo will be available on the website Jan. 27. The voter's pamphlet for the referendum passed in 1995 by the voters is https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JpMDoEg2y23s9O9qKFf85FcQgCrWv7_q/view WDFW's motion for summary judgement is https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nUL_OuytBb80e9vxD_IbsM5ElS84t2lr/view

When one files motions, two complete copies have to be filed with the court and an additional copy provided to opposing counsel. As you can see from the graphic below, Mr. Frawley had a day on Friday that resembled a UPS delivery man. To say this effort to open doors for the public in North of Falcon requires commitment and dedication is truly an understatement.


Edited by Rivrguy (01/25/20 08:16 PM)
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1020601 - 01/25/20 07:56 PM Re: LEGAL ACTION CHALLENGING SEASON SETTING PROCESS [Re: Rivrguy]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5732
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I just read Wecker's declaration. Dayum, she has it figured out. Not only will the current system not recover depressed stocks, it will destroy "healthy" one.

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