Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1023977 - 03/07/20 11:48 AM Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery
Leopard Shark Offline
Eyed Egg

Registered: 02/17/20
Posts: 5
Loc: Oregon
Not sure if this was already posted yet but I ran across this on Facebook this morning. A short read and prolly not new information to many of you but thought I would throw it out there anyways since it talks about WA. a bit ><,>

https://www.opb.org/news/article/salmon-haul-seals-sea-lions-killer-whales/
_________________________
Just a lazy old bay shark that's eaten one to many Humboldt squid ><,>~

Top
#1024009 - 03/07/20 08:38 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2860
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
The impact of predators (pinnipeds and avian) on both out migrating smolts and returning adults is garnering a great deal of attention and rightfully so.

I had not read the article you posted but as posted on a previous thread:

"Here is a link to the Chasco report: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8.

And a December 2018 WDFW Staff presentation to the Commission:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/...esentation.pdf."

As I recall it was estimated that harbor seals consumed around 12 million Puget Sound origin Chinook smolt or roughly 22% of that study year's production of both hatchery and wild fish. Just harbor seals.

Yes, there are many factors adversely impacting rate of returns but failure to recognize and address predation is problematic in terms of SRKW recovery as well as that of wild Chinook - both ESA listed.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1024011 - 03/07/20 09:00 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5855
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It just amazes me that predation, lack of forage food base, and such get consistently ignored. All that matters is dead fish in the boat. Divide up the catch and blame the Black Hole of Ocean Conditions for all the problems.

Top
#1024013 - 03/07/20 09:58 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2860
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Those predators have to eat year around so when the wave of salmon smolts pushes out into the ocean they focus on what remains......to include forage fish. As I remember when WDFW was developing its rockfish recovery plan the number of seals was estimated at around 15,000 and their collective annual food requirements were in the neighborhood of 28 million pounds. Close to 20,000 seals now - do the math.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1024031 - 03/08/20 08:55 AM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5855
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
We (you and me Larry, plus a few other old folks) can do the math but it appears that those working in the management entities (WDFW, NOAA, et al) can't or won't.

Top
#1024036 - 03/08/20 10:18 AM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2860
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
We (you and me Larry, plus a few other old folks) can do the math but it appears that those working in the management entities (WDFW, NOAA, et al) can't or won't.


I think the folks at NOAA can do the math. What they lack is the backbone to go to Congress and push for an amendment to the MMPA to allow NOAA broader powers to manage those predators. That would be particularly applicable as part of recovery efforts for ESA listed species.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1024039 - 03/08/20 10:31 AM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5855
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
NOAA doesn't need to go to Congress, at least not at first. They have to clearly explain what is going on. Like with the SRKWs, what they are doing for "recovery" is ensuring they will starve but away from where people can easily see them.

The public should know what is going on. They are the ones that have to lobby Congress. If we had a Free Press that did investigations we might get the information out. But, folks would have to read or listen.

Top
#1024100 - 03/08/20 12:03 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Leopard Shark Offline
Eyed Egg

Registered: 02/17/20
Posts: 5
Loc: Oregon
Whats interesting to me is that I have been watching this whole fish loss vs pinnipeds gain thing for about 20 years now and I can't help but wonder if this had always been going on but without notice up until the point at which the fish populations crashed overall. For example there seemed to be a balance at one point where pinnipeds foraged mostly outside of these rivers because there was "enough" fish out there. Now we see them feeding at the base of fish ladders or in rivers like the Sandy and also taking them off the anglers hook for those not educated enough to "keep the net down" during the salmon runs. There has always been a ton of predation on the fish... Invasive fish such as bass, walleye, and the native northern sqauwfish which all thrive in the warmer waters below the dams.. Caspian turns, development, warming water temps, gill nets... ect..ect... The list goes on but now that the fish are more or less gone the pinnipeds seem to be feeding in desperation... That said I think the blame ultimately has to be turned at fisheries management or possibly environmentalists with their hatchery lawsuits... I wonder if they realize that when they get what they want "no brats" that the few remaining wild fish will be whats left for the huge amounts of predators to feed on.. One way or another we let this all slip to this point regardless of if we had chosen to keep planting brats or move to a wild fish only model. I realize there are many opinions and models we could go with from here on out but to me it seems that everyone and everything is suffering and fighting over the remaining fish. Yes I know I am missing a lot here that many could educate me personally on and I ofc welcome that.. I guess that's just what the overall change in the last 2 decades or more looks like to me ><,>
_________________________
Just a lazy old bay shark that's eaten one to many Humboldt squid ><,>~

Top
#1024107 - 03/08/20 12:18 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5855
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It is my understanding that the sea lions, at least, use tp prefer lamprey during their spawning runs. Lots more calories per unit. We've rules the lamprey. They eat what is available, and we keep fishing down everything.

If you remember the trophic pyramid, you start with a lot of plants and the work up through herbivores to apex carnivores. At every level you have a lot less organisms because of every loss. Well, if you harvest everything down to (say) 20 % of historic unfished it still stays in balance until you totally protect the apex predators...

Much of what has been said here is, to me, basic ecology that anybody who stayed awake in class should know. May not mesh with policy though.

Top
#1024121 - 03/08/20 01:37 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2860
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
To provide a partial response one may merely look at the increase in harbor seals and the decrease in productivity of the delayed release local winter blackmouth fishery to see a correlation and to reasonably conclude there is a cause and effect relationship.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1024123 - 03/08/20 01:51 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2860
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
NOAA doesn't need to go to Congress, at least not at first. They have to clearly explain what is going on. Like with the SRKWs, what they are doing for "recovery" is ensuring they will starve but away from where people can easily see them.

The public should know what is going on. They are the ones that have to lobby Congress. If we had a Free Press that did investigations we might get the information out. But, folks would have to read or listen.


I will politely suggest that we are way past "NOAA doesn't need to go to Contress, at least not a first." This issue has been raised numerous times to include at least two NOAA-sponsored meetings I have attended. And then there is the NOAA debacle of Herschel and his sea lion relatives at the Ballard locks in 1985. I would offer to Barry Thoms (NOAA Regional Director) that Rome is still burning and the fire is spreading regionally.

NOAA is tasked with recovery of ESA listed species and needs to vigorously seek changes to the MMPA to allow them to accomplish what the Endangered Species Act (of Congress) directs. The MMPA should be subordinate to the ESA - not the other way around.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1024128 - 03/08/20 02:22 PM Re: Pinnipeds, Killer Whales and Salmon Recovery [Re: Leopard Shark]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5855
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
ThePublic should go to Congress, because NOAA won't.

Top

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
fish monger, fishermanonabike, hedgehog, lone angler, On The Swing
Recent Gallery Pix
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Gibbs Delta Time Capsule
Who's Online
8 registered (DBS, ondarvr, CorneliusDunghamer, Excitable Bob, Bent Metal, NickD90, 2 invisible), 112 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
CorneliusDunghamer, OnLine, JussieSmolt82, whatfish, BiggPP69420
11454 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 26169
Dan S. 16180
Sol Duc 16101
elparquito 13937
Salmo g. 12922
eyeFISH 12556
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9159
Forum Stats
11454 Members
18 Forums
75905 Topics
844406 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |