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#1027693 - 04/06/20 10:55 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: eyeFISH]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28164
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The Chehalis Tribe's share comes out of the "non-treaty" portion, since they are not a treaty tribe.

It's more correct to think of the two shares as "treaty" and "non-treaty", rather than 'tribal" and "non-tribal".

Fish on...

Todd
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#1027695 - 04/06/20 11:19 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Bay wolf]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
For a lot of years the Chehalis Tribal catch was part of the GH tribal which was the QIN. If I recall correctly the QIN got that changed as the Chehalis Tribe is a non treaty tribe and QIN a treaty tribe. Courts dictated that the Chehalis Tribe is entitled to a percentage of fish passing through the reservation at Oakville and it is part of the non treaty ( state ) share.

As to sharing I think it was two years ago that the QIN insisted that they get the court mandated share which means NT Washington ocean harvest count against the state share. It gits all sorts of iffy after that as QIN do not accept the state C&R mortalities ( rightly so ) and non commercial call BS on gillnet drop out mortalities ( rightly so ) or in other words everybody lies which is so. On Chinook if I was tribal I would give the word militant a whole new meaning. In the 2020 model based on modified Ocean option 2 Alaska & BC will harvest 11,733 Grays Harbor Chinook before they enter Washington waters and the state fishers will get around 250 in marine areas off the coast. The state of Washington ( WDFW ) agreed to this harvest percentage in the recently signed Harvest Annex . To put it simply be it tribal or NT we have little to say with Chinook harvest. Terminal fishers all and the fish are screwed going out the door by AK & BC and the state of Washington agreed to this. So for Chinook I leave it up to the QIN nation to deal with it as we will never have harvestable Chinook of any real numbers. Fix habitat or increase hatchery production terminal and fish escapement will get few only AK & BC ( and maybe the Orcas will benefit )

Coho are a bit different with it be US fisheries being the big dog. Our total impacts modeled ( marine & fresh ) are around 17,000 and the tribal are are about 13,000 and that is the share issue. Again WDFW agreed to the marine harvest and in the end it falls on terminal fishers to balance the scales. I will point out the Region 6 staff have about zero input on the ocean seasons only the dirty bag we terminal fishers are left holding. Kinda the way it works.


Edited by Rivrguy (04/06/20 11:23 AM)
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#1027699 - 04/06/20 11:53 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
I got a question immediately and it was " what was the harvestable available Chinook across the bar or after ocean harvest." The number for the Chehalis is 1391 wild and and 1611 hatchery ( the hatchery are the Satsop R broodstock not a true wild not a true hatchery / genetically the same and will spawn naturally ) for a total of 3002. Humptulips is 284 wild and 4314 hatchery for a total available for harvest of 4598. Keep in mind it matters zip as to hatchery available for harvest it is wild escapement that governs everything so that 284 wild number is a big deal.

Boiling it down AK & BC will take 8005 wild Grays Harbor Chinook and our terminal impact will be 3134 if fished as outlined prior with the vast majority of Chehalis fish being QIN harvest.


Edited by Rivrguy (04/06/20 11:58 AM)
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#1027706 - 04/06/20 02:54 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy


Boiling it down AK & BC will take 8005 wild Grays Harbor Chinook and our terminal impact will be 3134 if fished as outlined prior with the vast majority of Chehalis fish being QIN harvest.


And this is AFTER negotiating the most recent annex of PST that's supposed to deliver "more" kings back to the PNW.

I guess "more" is a relative term.

The 2020 modeled AK/BC catches amounts to almost the entire Chehalis escapement.... and essentially TRIPLE the anticipated Hump escapement. GDITMMM!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1027709 - 04/06/20 04:17 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
You know Doc I feel bad for our basin, it just ain't right. Lord I do not know what to tell folks with ESA stocks, I mean what can you say? Land owners, tax payers, fishers, just everybody is paying such a huge price ( including the fish ) and the harvest managers for WA just mute themselves. Business as usual is the message. Damn I wish the tribes would pull together and sue.
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#1027713 - 04/06/20 04:51 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
" Damn I wish the tribes would pull together and sue."

Be careful what you wish for. A lawsuit could very well remove a lot if not all non-tribal fishing. After all, treaties are the law of the land, with equal power and authority as the constitution.

As sovereign nations. Tribes are not subject to state laws, and are federally guaranteed not only the right to fish, but the right to have unlimited protection from anything that might impact the reduction of the fish that they have the right too.

If the Feds get involved and start reducing fishing over ESA or anything else, the tribes will be the very last to have to reduce.

Also, with the current climate with our Governor, there is no doubt in my mind that any mandated reductions in fishing will go down just like this most recent closure:

First to go: Recreational fishing

Non-tribal commercial next, but with great hesitation since they perform an essential function in feeding thousands.

Last, and most probably never, Tribal commercial fishing.

And absolutely never: Any fishing labeled Tribal Cultural.

Thats just how it all looks to me...

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#1027720 - 04/06/20 06:46 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Bay wolf]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Sooner or later a federal judge will drop the hammer on marine mixed stock fisheries with the words " you shall stop " It is not if but rather when. The Orca thing might be the perfect tool to accomplish that. There will always be the slightly dignified brawl between the NT and tribal fishers terminal and off the coast. It is not the tribes fault that NT side ( us ) are represented by ..............ah...........less than effective people. The problem exist in agreements that are multi state and international with BC within a federal framework. I seriously doubt that Governor Green Jeans would ever stand up to the feds and frankly our two senators likely only know a salmon from photos. As I see the problem it is the Orca lawsuit or the tribes that will break up the cabal that runs ocean harvest that is wiping out fish stocks. I am a pragmatist and put aside my own prejudices when I look for a solution to the problem.

Off the soapbox.


Edited by Rivrguy (04/06/20 06:48 PM)
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#1027729 - 04/06/20 07:55 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7211
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Let's say that WSC wins and the marine MS gets shut down. The US takes on Canada and gets the marine MS shut down. The only fisheries are terminal. By law and treaty, the Tribes share is 50%. The other half is NI. Now,how they structure that, if they get rid of the NI nets and shift some/most of that to the Tribes because the recs can't get there whole 50% that is possible. But the Tribes are not entitled to more than half unless WA rolls over.

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#1027734 - 04/06/20 09:05 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Plain and simple...I like that!

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#1027761 - 04/07/20 02:21 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2429
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
I agree with Rivrguy, mixed stock fisheries will eventually end, it is the only way to target harvest.
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#1027786 - 04/09/20 06:01 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3264
I agree mixed stock fishing in the ocean will end, but I'm pretty sure it will be because the fish are finally all gone. We'll find the zeal for orca recovery fades quickly when the real price tag gets revealed and it includes the very livelihood of commercial fishers.

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#1027805 - 04/09/20 12:26 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Now for something totally different. The Chehalis at Porter just went below historical low for this day of the year. The rest of the basin right there or just a few CFS off except the Skookumchuck which is up yet with the dam releases. NOAA's Northwest River Forecast Center has the vast majority of the states rain fed streams trending the same it appears. Being April and the groundwater already being depleting, and even if it rains it will do little to recharge the groundwater, get ready for a really low water summer.
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#1027881 - 04/10/20 06:27 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Just out and that was totally wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! Got a call ( hey Dave wrong one ) and staff will be getting things out next week. Some odds and ends still being tied up with the Nation.



Edited by Rivrguy (04/10/20 07:59 PM)
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#1027882 - 04/10/20 06:55 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
geljockey Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Olympia, WA
I trust you meant 2020-21 sport fishing rules pamphlet wink

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#1028096 - 04/14/20 01:14 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: geljockey]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Chad sent the final model out but until the Adviser ZOOM meeting Thursday the where / why is a little unknown, well sorta. The Nation went right to the GH Aggregate of all streams ( which is their right to do ) and appears to have maintained sharing demands. In other words the Nation is entitled to 50% after the fish enter WA ST waters which means NT charters, sport, and trollers count into our sharing terminal. Larger ocean catch the smaller NT terminal catch.

So it looks to be normal jack season 8/1 to 9/15 followed by a two week no fishing window 9/15 to 10/1. 10/1 through Nov 1 fish bag limit and release Chinook . After Nov 1 release Chum also. The bay fishery is 9/23 Nov 30 release Chinook.

Hump is 2c 8/1 to 9/15 hatchery only Chinook and Coho. The river is Sept. 1-Sept 30 2 Adult bag: release wild Chinook and wild Coho. Oct. 1-Oct 31 1 Adult bag: 1 may be Chinook, release wild Chinook and wild Coho, Nov release chum
Nov 1-Dec 31 1 Adult bag: release Chinook, chum, and wild Coho

And before my ears get fried, no I do not know why the two week off the water window but that is what the Rec season modeled is. Yes it means the inriver Rec is off the river in two prime weeks followed by fishing behind the Nation fishers for the next three weeks as they fish 3 days a week. We will have to wait for staff to explain the rational.

The NT Commercials have one day week of 10/18 and three days week of 10/25. The Nation start fishing week of 10/4 and two days a week in weeks 10/11 & 10/18. Off the water for two weeks then back in the water in Nov with three days a week. Last week of Nov on it is five days a week.


Edited by Rivrguy (04/14/20 01:30 PM)
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#1028097 - 04/14/20 01:22 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
This link had the following info.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/management/north-falcon/summaries#coastal

Grays Harbor Area
The 2020 recreational salmon fishing season in Grays Harbor (Marine Area 2-2) west of buoy 13 is concurrent with the ocean rules for salmon (Area 2 rules apply). 2020 recreational salmon fishing seasons in Grays Harbor east of buoy 13 are:

North Bay: from Aug. 1 Sept. 15, anglers can keep one salmon, but must release wild Chinook and wild coho;
East Bay: from Sept. 23 Nov. 30, anglers can keep one salmon, but must release all Chinook.
Humptulips River recreational salmon fishing season and adult limits for 2020 are as follows:

September: anglers can keep two salmon, and must release wild Chinook and wild coho.
October: anglers can keep one salmon, and must release wild Chinook and wild coho.
November and December: only one hatchery coho may be retained.
During 2020 recreational freshwater salmon seasons for the Chehalis watershed, south bay rivers, and the Hoquiam River, anglers will be able to retain one adult salmon but must release Chinook for the full season and chum during November and December.

Chehalis River from Hwy 101 Bridge to South Elma Bridge: from Aug. 1 Sept. 15, anglers must release all adult salmon.
Johns, Elk, Hoquiam, Wishkah, Chehalis, Wynoochee, Satsop, and Black rivers will be open October through December, but anglers must release all Chinook in October, and all Chinook and chum in November and December.
The Skookumchuck and Newaukum rivers will open Oct. 16 December, but anglers must release all Chinook in October and all Chinook and chum in November and December.
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#1028098 - 04/14/20 01:42 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4521
I saw some guys fishing the Chehalis 2 days ago.

Bet it was good.

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#1028102 - 04/14/20 01:50 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Lifter99 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 287
Dave, do you know what the daily limits will be. One or two coho/day? Wild and hatchery like last year?

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#1028106 - 04/14/20 02:16 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Lifter99]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
One fish day but release Chinook and Chum after Nov 1.
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#1028122 - 04/14/20 07:21 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Lifter99 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 287
Thanks Dave. I take that to mean 1 wild or hatchery coho/day.

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