SPEY LINE WEIGHTS AND HEAD LENGTHS
THIS DATA IS AS OT FEBRUARY 4, 2004
MANUFACTURE LENGTH WIGHT IN GRAINS

SA XLT-6/7F 90 790
SA XLT-7/8F 90 880
SA XLT-8/9F 90 990
SA XLT-9/10F 92 1050
SA XLT-10/11F 102 1265

RIO GRANDSPEY 7/8 80 900
RIO GRANDSPEY 8/9 100 1100
RIO GRANDSPEY 9/10 100 1300
RIO GRANDSPEY 10/11 100 1500
RIO MIDSPEY 6/7 65 490

RIO MIDSPEY 7/8 65 560
RIO MIDSPEY 8/9 65 640
RIO MIDSPEY 9/10 65 725
RIO MIDSPEY 10/11 65 875
RIO MIDSPEY 11/12 65 1100

RIO WINDCUTTER 5/6 50.5" 380
RIO WINDCUTTER 6/7/8 54'6" 455
RIO WINDCUTTER 7/8/9 54'6" 525
RIO WINDCUTTER 8/9/10 54'6" 585
RIO WINDCUTTER 9/10/ /11 54'6" 650
RIO WINDCUTTER 10/11/12 54'6" 740
RIO WINDCUTTER 11/12/13 54'6" 900

WINDCUTTER UPGRADE 6/ 7/8 69'6" 600
WINDCUTTER UPGRADE 7/8/9 69'6" 680
WINDCUTTER UPGRADE 8/9/10 69'6" 750
WINDCUTTER UPGRADE 9/10/11 69'6" 860
WINDCUTTER UPGRADE 10/11/12 69'6" 970

AIRFLO DELTA SPEY WF 6/7F 50'6" 500
AIRFLO DELTA SPEY WF 7/8F 52' 530
AIRFLO DELTA SPEY WF 8/9F 53' 575
AIRFLO DELTA SPEY WF 9/10F 55' 630
AIRFLO DELTA SPEY WF 10/11F 56'6" 690
AIRFLO DELTA SPEY WF 11/12F 57' 770
AIRFLO LONG DELTA SPEY WF 6/7F 61'6" 550
AIRFLO LONG DELTA SPEY WF 7/8F 63' 580
AIRFLO LONG DELTA SPEY WF 8/9F 65'6" 630
AIRFLO LONG DELTA SPEY WF 9/10F 66' 690
AIRFLO LONG DELTA SPEY WF 10/11F 67' 770
AIRFLO TRADITIONAL SPEY WF 7/8 F 82 650
AIRFLO TRADITIONAL SPEY WF 8/9F 84 725
AIRFLO TRADITIONAL SPEY WF 9/10F 85.5 800
AIRFLO TRADITIONAL SPEY WF 10/11F 87 900

LOOP ADAPTED LINE 9/10 F 10.7M
34.75 FT 456
LOOP ADAPTED LINE 10/11 F 11.2M
36.4 FT 618

HARDY MACH I WF 8/9 39ft
12 meters 21 grams 324 grains
HARDY MACH I WF 9/10 14.5 meters 47.5ft
14.5 meters 30 grams 463 grains
HARDY MACH I WF 10/11 15.9 meters 52 feet 42 grams 648 grains

Worthless long bellied lines, every one of them. When is a line maker going to make a Skagit style line? The only kind to throw.

KerryS

Its in the works now!

More later

H2H,

Thanks for posting that information; it's a helpful comparison. I presume the length and weight refer to the belly section. Is that correct? Have you, or has anyone here, tried the Airflow Delta? I've been interested in trying one of their lines - very smooth finish.

KerryS,

You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree that lines other than Skagit style are worthless. A Skagit style, or any short shooting head, "throws" well, just like with single handed rods. Heads generally throw well, but don't "cast" particularly well. I've used both, and don't dispute the effectiveness of shooting heads. However, I find myself making the necessary compromises between maximum effectiveness - monofilament nylon and lead shot, for example - and flylines that are a pleasure to use and that cast with some grace and style.

I've been using a long-belly line chopped and spliced to suit my preferences for the last couple seasons. I can't cast it as far as a Skagit style head, but it casts far enough, and I like the smooth handling characteristics, and it fishes effectively enough for fly fishing. As I indicated, if I really needed maximum effectiveness, I'd use mono and lead.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo G

My post was a joke between me and Homer. However, I do prefer short bellied lines over long bellied lines. Might be because I learned with the short ones and I have never really given the long ones much of a try.

Purchased a long bellied floater for my 6126 this year. I have been out with it a few times. So far so good but I need to put in some serious time with the line to really learn how to work it.

Kerry

Salmo G

If you want to try some of those lines on the Chart E-Mail me.

Oh by the way, "Skagit System Lines" are the only way to go!

Kerry and I allways trade shots at each other.

The right tool for the right Job..

why would you ever want a short belly for a floating line???

Why would you want a long belly for throwing tips???

Winter time is down and dirty time any joy taken in the cast is lost with a sink tip. Winter is fishing season not casting season so a short belly is ideal..

In the summer the pace of the day is more relaxed and more joy is taken in the grace of the cast. long well controlled casts are the order of the day so a long belly or even a double taper are ideal..

Salmo g wrote:

“I presume the length and weight refer to the belly section. Is that correct?”


Sorry about that, missed that one.

The first # is the “Rod Weight”
Second # is length (in feet) of the “BELLY SECTION”
Third # “WEIGHT” (in grains) of the Belly section


RA3

I make "Skagit Lines Systems"
I joke around with friends, and say “any thing over 50 feet is a long belly”
But I do use a host of lines.

What?!?! Anything over 50 feet is a long belly!!!

Anything over 30 feet is a long belly!!!

RA3,

I agree, pick the right tool for the job. However, carry that philosophy to its logical end (see my earlier post), and you’ll lay down your fly rod in the winter and pick up a spinning rod. Winter is down and dirty time, and the most effective fly fishing technique is the one that most resembles spin fishing with mono and lead. Clearly, the ideal “short belly” winter fishing line is a hank of monofilament with as many lead shot as necessary to put your fly in the strike zone and hold it there. Unfortunately, there isn’t much fly casting “grace” involved in that style. (Although I’ve debated with eastern fishermen who held that mono, lead shot, and the “Tuck” cast is indeed fly fishing.) It seems to me that anyone who fly fishes for winter steelhead must necessarily choose a compromise between effectiveness and whatever allegiance he has to style and grace that causes him to swing a fly rod during the winter season.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo g wrote:
“Clearly, the ideal “short belly” winter fishing line is a hank of monofilament with as many lead shot as necessary to put your fly in the strike zone and hold it there. Unfortunately, there isn’t much fly casting “grace” involved in that style.”

Unfortunately there is grace in casting those “Skagit Line” (with 136 grains Ed Ward style sink-tips), with less body movement the ease of casting these line system makes all different in the world when winter condition are around, and you do run into the same condition in the summer in the PNW.

At the Sandy River Spey Clave Ed showed his style of casting on a light two-handed rod to make a point, that you can use light rods with this style of line and casting technique.

SA came out with a series of “Spey Short Head” lines design by Al, and there is another company coming out with a local GUYS design of “Skagit Line”.

I can’t remember how many “Skagit Lines” I made at Skagit Anglers (in Mt. Vernon, WA.) nor do I remember how many I’ve made since but a lot of those people come from all over, from Norway, Canada, East coast .

While it time to cast a “Skagit Line” maybe you would change your mind?

One of the top “Skagit” casters in the area Ed Ward is totally amazing. He has showed any one who asks him about his lines and casting of those lines with heavy and light weight flies. I started making these lines years ago and it has changed my style of FLY FISHING. I even take it into summer run fishing. Ed system is easy 3X the rod length not more than 3.5X rod length (belly size). The ease of casting will amaze you from trout spey rods too heavy spey rods. It just makes it easy to cast all day long, day after day.

Picking the right tool for the job. My money is on “Skagit Line System”

H2H,

Why is it unfortunate that there is some grace in casting a Skagit system line? I'm not trying to bash those lines. I probably have several that are similar to Ed's lines, if not actually equivalent. I wouldn't bash Ed's lines or his style even if I didn't like it, as he's a friend of mine. I think you'd agree, that for winter steelhead fishing, the greater the deviation from mono and lead, the greater the compromise that we make in terms of effectiveness. Ed's lines and style come closer to the effectiveness of drift gear, but I don't know anyone who thinks it's as effective as drift gear. The reason I've shied away from short heads and very thin running lines is because those types of lines result in making more compromise than I care to. I would probably do it if it was the only way I could hook a winter fish, but I'm able to achieve some success with lines that are more satisfying - for me - to use. If I actually needed to catch a steelhead, knowing what I know now, I think I'd just pick up a spinning rod, because that style of fishing appears to make the most effective presentation of bait or lure and results in the most hookups.

3 to 3.5X, eh? Hmmm, the winter line I'm using now almost fits that definition, I think. I'll have to measure it some time.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

SalmoG. you make a good point however i think we can assume that regardless of the effectivness of gear fishing those of us here having this debate want to swing... If i wanna gear fish i am gonna gear fish, i life drifting a pink worm with a casting rod but i don't mix fly fishing and gear fishing..

I don't see anything grasefull incasting sink tips whether on a long or short belly it's all junk casting as far as I am concerned. therefore i find it easier to cast one with the massive head and less energy of a windcutter, I know guys who throw 15 feet of lc13 with their xlt's but it doesn't look like fun Just like stripping in 50 feet of line ever cast in the summer isn't fun..
however i am all for individuality to to each his own. for me it's the simplicity of the WC in winter and a long belly or DT in the summer after the first of May I refuse to use sink tips...

Salmo G

If I were to follow your methods to thier logical end I would only fish floating lines with dry flies in up stream cast and dead drift.

Kerry,

BINGO!!

And only with split cane rods, reels made in England (no disc drag), lines of silk, and natural gut leaders, too!

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo g

3x not more than 3.5X rod length is only half of it, the tappers are the key to the big picture!

Salmo G,

Casting only to rising fish............ Might make steelhead fishing kinda tough.