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#1061579 - 02/18/23 04:38 PM ESA LISTINGS
Salman Offline

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
Would it be better if esa listings also said what their intent was? Like if we’re going to shut down Steelhead on the op it will be for x amount of years till we get x amount of fish back. Also I just want to clarify that I don’t make an effort to go out of my way to C&R Steelhead. I will and do keep Steelhead if it’s open and the fish isn’t a boot or illegal, my standards are high as far as colors go. The wild fish groups advocating for wild release while the Indians are keeping natives and the fisherman are letting them go is absolute [Bleeeeep!]. If a season needs to be it needs to be equal, natives and fisherman allowed to retain fish. If not then a season shouldn’t be. I don’t get the whole mindset of pretending like you’re saving the resource when a couple miles downstream their netting fish to be sold in Seattle. It’s absolutely stupid and [Bleeeeep!] everything up.
Why build in the flood plain?

#1061580 - 02/18/23 06:47 PM Re: ESA LISTINGS [Re: Salman]
Lifter99 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 386
If steelhead in the OP rivers are ESA listed then steelhead fishing in those rivers will be over probably forever. The wild fish will never recover especially when the tribes continue to net. Recs can kiss it goodbye. Also, WDFW should discontinue planting hatchery steelhead in those rivers affected by the ESA ruling. The license buying recs shouldn't have to pay for fish they can't fish for.

#1061581 - 02/18/23 08:53 PM Re: ESA LISTINGS [Re: Salman]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6869
Loc: zipper
In Congress, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg

#1061582 - 02/19/23 09:03 AM Re: ESA LISTINGS [Re: fish4brains]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4423
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
NOAA issues 90-day finding on Olympic Peninsula Steelhead
Possible outcomes include consideration for endangered species protection

By Allen Leister • February 17, 2023 1:30 am
Tags: Environment, Local News
Courtesy photo / United States Department of Fish and Wildlife
Potential findings by the National Oceanic Atmospheric Association (NOAA) and the National Marine Fisheries Service, could land the Olympic Peninsula Steelhead population on the Endangered Species Act as “endangered” or “threatened.” Recent studies suggest the listing could be key to the species survivability in the future.
Courtesy photo / United States Department of Fish and Wildlife Potential findings by the National Oceanic Atmospheric Association (NOAA) and the National Marine Fisheries Service, could land the Olympic Peninsula Steelhead population on the Endangered Species Act as “endangered” or “threatened.” Recent studies suggest the listing could be key to the species survivability in the future.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), in conjunction with the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), has proposed a 90-day finding on a petition to list Olympic Peninsula steelhead as threatened or endangered under the Endangered Species Act.

In a Feb. 10 filing on the Federal Register, the NMFS stated that the petition, which was submitted to the Secretary of Commerce in August 2022 by The Conservation Angler and Wild Fish Conservancy, presents “substantial scientific and commercial information indicating the listing may be warranted.”

NMFS concluded in its summary that they will conduct a status review of Olympic Peninsula steelhead to determine whether listing the species under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) in some format is necessary, and will be soliciting scientific and commercial information from any interested parties. According to the filing, all scientific and commercial information pertinent to the petitioned action must be received by NOAA or NMFS by April 11.

Possible outcomes of the petition are a negative finding on the 90-day review, which would end the process; or a positive finding which would spur the process to go through a public comment period and additional reviews, which could ultimately lead to a listing on the ESA. An endangered listing on the ESA would effectively shut down fishing for Olympic Peninsula steelhead.

According to NOAA Fisheries, steelhead trout are listed as threatened or endangered in numerous waterways, but not within the Olympic Peninsula Distinct Population Segment where the Olympic Peninsula steelhead are mostly found.

A study published in the North American Journal of Fisheries Management in November 2021 indicates that a listing on the ESA could be favored, as decades worth of documentation has shown that run sizes for Olympic Peninsula steelhead had come down from tens of thousands of fish in the historical period to mere thousands from 1980 through 2017. Notably, the Quillayute run declined by 38%, the Hoh saw a 69% decrease, the Queets decreased by 50%, and the lower Quinault River’s run had reduced by about 63% during the 37-year timeline. The study, however, did point to a 24% increase in Olympic Peninsula steelhead run size for the upper Quinault River.

The study listed the reasons for the decline in the population of Olympic Peninsula Steelhead amounted to “poor ocean conditions, angler and commercial harvest, and habitat degradation.”

This is not the first time that Olympic Peninsula steelhead populations have been investigated. In 1996, NMFS completed a comprehensive status review of coastal and inland steelhead populations in Washington, Oregon, Idaho and California. They concluded that while the Olympic Peninsula steelhead was not in danger of extinction or likely to become endangered in the foreseeable future, there were concerns about overall health.

Two potential ESA listings on which the Olympic Peninsula Steelhead species could find themselves are endangered or threatened. If Olympic Peninsula steelhead are listed as threatened rather than endangered, limited fishing could remain, and prohibitions would be determined on a case-by-case basis.

There can be exceptions to ESA rules. Native American tribes, for example, can petition the NMFS with a limited harvest plan and can use ESA-listed species for subsistence or ceremonial fishing. Such exceptions have been approved for protected salmon in Washington in the past.

People interested in submitting data or public comment relevant to the NOAA and NMFS status review of the Olympic Peninsula Steelhead can do so at

Contact Reporter Allen Leister at 360-463-3572 or
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

#1061585 - 02/21/23 12:18 PM Re: ESA LISTINGS [Re: Salman]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5078
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...

ESA..... 1973 Endangered Species Act

To date, 2,244 species are listed as threatened or endangered under the Endangered Species Act, with 1,618 of those in the United States. Of the listed species in the United States, 884 are plants; 307 are invertebrates, including insects, mollusks, and others; 163 are fishes; 95 are birds; 96 are mammals; 36 are reptiles; 35 are amphibians; and two are fungi — lichens, actually.

Since the Endangered Species Act was first passed 1973, only 3 percent of species protected by the law have recovered to the point where they are no longer threatened or endangered.
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

#1061586 - 02/21/23 02:39 PM Re: ESA LISTINGS [Re: Salman]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7441
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
One of the things about the actual ESA law is that the number 1 priority written in the Act is the protection and restoration of the habitats on which the species depend. We are doing a pretty **ss poor job of restoring, say, old growth forests, intact floodplains, intact estuaries, natural stream hydrography (see Colorado River for a really good example). So, it is no wonder that we fail at restoration. What we want, since we won't control population of humans, is "zoos" and "preserves" where we can go too see them without having to disrupt our lives.

Edited by Carcassman (02/21/23 02:39 PM)



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