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#1062773 - 11/11/23 10:16 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: eyeFISH]
thaxor Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 422
Loc: Olympia, WA
Ran around Porter to oakville in the sled yesterday. No luck for us. Ran into two other boats, neither seemed to be having any success.

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#1062781 - 11/13/23 11:54 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: thaxor]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Ok folks as I posted before I requested the harvest numbers for the QIN but staff said QIN had not provided them. They also said as soon as they have the data it would be provided and this arrived today from Mike Scharpf. I think he has done a good job providing insight for our fisheries so far.


As K-- explained below, market for salmon this year is way down and is reflected in the effort. Even when anglers fished, most didn’t fish the whole time available, many left after the prime tide. We heard similar stories from the treaty anglers. QIN’s pre-season catch predictions for the Chehalis were 2,039 Chinook, 28,815 coho, and 8,101 chum through the first 4 weeks of their fishery. They reported catching 289 Chinook, 3,562 coho, and 7,398 chum landed. And for the Humptulips side, pre-season predictions were 1,022 Chinook, 6,087 coho, and 2,961 chum, actuals are 59 Chinook, 768 coho, and 3,471 chum. On Oct 27th, they closed the remainer of their fall season due to concerns with the number of coho returning this year. They numbers are still preliminary and may change, but probably not much.

As for the non-treaty side, the pre-season predictions for 2A/D were 83 Chinook, 7,002 coho, and 6,155 chum, actuals are 9 Chinook (hatchery origin), 1,474 coho, and 3,121 chum. To help put things in a little better perspective, the pre-season predicted catches are based on years with an average of 14 boats participating. There were 6 this year and only 5 the last week. No one participated in the 2C fishery, weather wasn’t great and just wasn’t worth it with price for fish.

During both fisheries, the number of coho per fish ticket was lower than pre-season forecasting, and on the treaty side, as low as the 2015 year. Part of the concern that they expressed. Combining low coho per ticket and lower effort explains some of the commercial catch numbers. Thankfully, some of the in-river indicators are pointing to a few more fish than what was observed in the commercial fishery. Wynoochee trap counts are ahead of average, and we are seeing large numbers of coho at the Elk Creek trap. Hope they keep coming.
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#1062782 - 11/13/23 12:35 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3310
Gee. Go figure. No money to be made, so they don't fish, and as a result, they don't catch a lot of fish... Price was through the floor why? Perhaps because ocean fisheries flooded the markets with the vast majority of an at least decent run before the gillnet season started?

For sure, those commercial numbers are disappointing, even in light of the reduced effort. I think they missed a lot of early fish before they started fishing this season (that early rain that made me so happy), but even with that, it seems like the runs are underperforming. I really don't have a problem with the reduced limits; I'm always in favor of more fish for the gravel. I do think it's a bit of dirty pool to make a conscious decision not to put in full effort, then force our side to reduce ours as well, but it's probably for the best. I'm just glad we didn't get shut down the second the QIN announced their decision to stop fishing. Just being allowed to be out there keeps me happy these days, even if the fishing isn't always great.

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#1062783 - 11/13/23 01:07 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Nello Picinich (CCA) sent this and after the WDFW buy back this is the number of GH NT Commercial fisher left.

Remaining Grays Harbor/Columbia River Gill Net Licenses
Number Waiver? License Owner Residency
70621 N A J MITBY Resident
73362 Y CARL D FERGUSON Resident
71004 Y CHRISTOPHER A DOUMIT Resident
71160 Y DALE M BRUMFIELD Resident
70429 N DANNY J REEVES Resident
72070 N DAVID J MANDICH Resident
70326 N JACOB R COSS Resident
72368 N JOSEPH L SCHEUBER Resident
71526 Y KELLY DONALD & MARINA Non-Resident
72999 N MARIYAH INC Resident
72267 N OTIS M HUNSINGER Non-Resident
72988 N PAUL T BEESE Resident
70020 N RED FINN FISHERIES LLC Resident
72377 N ROBERT H BROCKHOFF Resident
72740 N WILLIAM L HUNSINGER Non-Resident
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1062784 - 11/14/23 04:17 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Quote:
Price was through the floor why? Perhaps because ocean fisheries flooded the markets with the vast majority of an at least decent run before the gillnet season started?


Do a seach why are salmon prices so low? It is all about Alaska and last years run leaving fish on hand. Also Russia found a loop hole on import bans by having processing done by China. Bristol Bay prices were 50% of last year and other fishries not much different. It is an interesting read and a lot of information is out there.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1062785 - 11/14/23 05:17 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3310
I did a little reading, and it sounds like retail price-gouging is largely responsible for the glut of salmon on the market. Retailers would rather throw away a bunch of fish than sell it at a reasonable, market-driven price. That's why you still see high prices at the store despite the paltry ex-vessel price of 50 cents per pound.

Russian salmon should be boycotted, considering that it is fueling Putin's war in Ukraine. I suppose it's finding its way to market via Chinese processors, which sounds to me like a great reason to boycott salmon from China, but hey, those middle men aren't going to stop practices that earn them higher profits, so....

I don't have much sympathy for the Alaska fishing industry, but I've always felt like they should get a lot more per pound than they do. I used to think it was the processors who controlled that (and they do, to some extent), but this shows how much they are constrained by the market.

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#1062786 - 11/14/23 07:46 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
I was surprised also when I finished reading several articles. It was not what I had thought at all.
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#1062787 - 11/14/23 07:56 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4978
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy


Be interesting to find out how many of those on the list, actual net??????? Maybe they keep the license "just for a tax write off"????


Nello Picinich (CCA) sent this and after the WDFW buy back this is the number of GH NT Commercial fisher left.

Remaining Grays Harbor/Columbia River Gill Net Licenses
Number Waiver? License Owner Residency
70621 N A J MITBY Resident
73362 Y CARL D FERGUSON Resident
71004 Y CHRISTOPHER A DOUMIT Resident
71160 Y DALE M BRUMFIELD Resident
70429 N DANNY J REEVES Resident
72070 N DAVID J MANDICH Resident
70326 N JACOB R COSS Resident
72368 N JOSEPH L SCHEUBER Resident
71526 Y KELLY DONALD & MARINA Non-Resident
72999 N MARIYAH INC Resident
72267 N OTIS M HUNSINGER Non-Resident
72988 N PAUL T BEESE Resident
70020 N RED FINN FISHERIES LLC Resident
72377 N ROBERT H BROCKHOFF Resident
72740 N WILLIAM L HUNSINGER Non-Resident
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#1062788 - 11/14/23 08:25 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Back in the mid-80s there was a big pink run in PS. The netters were getting like a dime or so per fish. One tribe set up a direct sales (it all went on fish tickets, too) for $2 per fish and couldn't keep up with demand. For a while a local tribe down here sold whole chum for a few dollars each. We bought some and got them custom smoked for gifts.

With some set-up effort the netters could sell directly as there seems a huge mark-up when you go through all the middle-men. Custom canners and smokers could also probably do well but it would be locally driven market.

We have, on occasion, gotten flash-frozen salmon from AK fishermen. Good product and good price plus the money goes to the fisherman.

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#1062789 - 11/14/23 10:18 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

More info. Not really a Chehalis thing but Alska and BC take more of our Chinook than cross the bar. They also are the main driver on prices for commercial caught fish. With processers dumping unsold flash froze 2022 not sold to prepare for 2023 harvest and 2023 prices so low why in the hell is salmon so expensive in the store?

Press Release: October 31, 2023
CONTACT: Forrest R. Bowers, (907) 465-6139, forrest.bowers@alaska.gov

2023 Salmon Harvest Summary
(Juneau) – The Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) has published preliminary harvest and value figures for the 2023 Alaska Commercial Salmon Fishery.

A total of 230.2 million salmon were harvested in 2023, a 43% increase from the 2022 total harvest of 160.7 million fish. The 2023 commercial salmon fishery all species harvest was valued at approximately $398.6 million, a significant decrease from 2022’s value of $720.4 million. International market conditions significantly impacted pricing of salmon statewide, thus value of the harvest.

Sockeye salmon accounted for approximately 45% of the total value at $181.1 million and 23% of the harvest at 51.8 million fish. Pink salmon comprised approximately 29% of the value at $113.7 million, and 66% of the harvest with 152.4 million fish. Chum salmon accounted for 19% of the value at $74.6 million and approximately 10% of the harvest at 23.5 million fish. Coho salmon accounted for approximately 4% of the value at $14.4 million and 1% of the harvest at 2.3 million fish. Chinook salmon harvest was estimated to be just under 235,000 fish with an estimated preliminary exvessel value of $14.7 million. A total of 5,577 individual permit holders made commercial salmon landings in 2023, a decrease from 2022 (6,126 permits).

When compared to the long-term time-series (1985-2022), the 2023 all-species commercial salmon harvest of approximately 230.2 million fish and 919.7 million pounds was the fourth highest on record for total fish harvested, and the seventh highest on record for total pounds harvested. Adjusted for inflation (CPI, 2023 prices), the 2023 exvessel value estimate of $398.6 million was the sixth lowest exvessel value reported since 1975.

These are preliminary harvest and value estimates which will change as fish tickets are processed and finalized. Dollar values provided by ADF&G are based on estimated exvessel prices and do not include post-season price adjustments. The final value of the 2023 salmon fishery will be determined in 2024 after seafood buyers and processors report the total value paid to fishermen in 2023.
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#1062790 - 11/14/23 12:53 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy

Chinook salmon harvest was estimated to be just under 235,000 fish with an estimated preliminary exvessel value of $14.7 million. A total of 5,577 individual permit holders made commercial salmon landings in 2023, a decrease from 2022 (6,126 permits).

235,000 kings... 5500 permits delivering

That's a whopping 42 kings per active permit. J F C... talk about an overcapitalized commercial fishery. Is that even "commercial" fishing? Sounds more like hobby fishing for personal homepack and sell just enough for fuel/expenses.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1062791 - 11/14/23 01:33 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Got a question on the Chehalis AK & BC harvest. I think I have been in the numbers game to long! The 2023 modeled 11,461 intercept by AK and BC is for Grays Harbor Chinook and total marine harvest known as Northern Fisheries is 12,091 is for all Grays Harbor Chinook. 2023 return across the bar for Grays Harbor Chinook 20,928 which is Chehalis Hump everything that comes into the Harbor.

WDFW manages Chehalis and Humptulips seperately but no other enity does so other than for spawner escapement. My bad not thinking to be clearer on what was in the numbers.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1062792 - 11/14/23 02:04 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I don't think that all 5500 permits landed Chinook. They are targeted by the trollers in SE where it is pretty significant fishery. The net fisheries are probably pretty "clean"; I doubt the Bristol Bay guys get many.

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#1062793 - 11/14/23 05:56 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
A long time friend of mine who passed some time back caught a Chinook while rec fishing out of Sitka. It was clipped and when eveything was processed he was told CWT's said it was a Humptulips Chinook. The Alaska intercept fishery is not exclusively commercial.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1062794 - 11/14/23 06:22 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I am sure that the AK and BC rec fisheries on feeding Chinook get WA fish. Going to SE AK or up to BC to chase Chinook and coho is just catching lots "our" fish when they don't count is sharing. Just in conservation.

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#1062795 - 11/14/23 07:18 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 191
Loc: United States
Pretty sure that's 5577 permits landed salmon, not landed Chinook. In 2021 SEAk, 831 troll permits landed 163,000 Chinook. There were about 1500 total permits all gears that landed salmon in SEAK in 2020-21

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#1062801 - 11/16/23 11:19 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1062802 - 11/16/23 11:34 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Yup always remember what Albert Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.


Quinault Nation closed tribal fishing early; calling on WDFW to do the same

The Quinault Indian Nation says that while they closed their fall tribal fisheries in Grays Harbor and on the Queets River early this year in order to protect wild Coho Salmon, they are calling on the state to join them.

In a letter sent to Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) director Kelly Susewind, the Quinault Indian Nation (QIN) says that they have again called on the state to close both fall Coho salmon fisheries in response to “alarmingly low returns of wild adult coho salmon”.

The letter states “We are disappointed at WDFW’s ‘wait and see’ attitude and reluctance to take precautionary actions to protect the resources entrusted to our stewardship in the face of uncertainty.”

“We understand this closure has brought hardship to our tribal fishermen and their families, but as stewards of our salmon for today and future generations, it’s the right thing to do,” said Quinault Indian Nation President Guy Capoeman. “While we won’t know with certainty how many wild coho will eventually spawn, after analyzing all the information we could muster, we believe precautionary management principles had to be followed. The best available science led us to conclude emergency closures were needed and we are disappointed the state decided against taking similar precautions.”

QIN has a treaty protected right to harvestable fish produced by the Queets River and the Chehalis Basin and the responsibility to regulate its fisheries.

WDFW manages non-treaty commercial and sport fisheries within state waters.

The Nation states that in an letter dated October 30, 2023, they urged WDFW to immediately close Coho fisheries under its jurisdiction in the Queets River and Grays Harbor.

The agency has chosen to keep those fisheries open for the time being.

In a November 3 letter in response, QIN says that WDFW stated “We agree that the limited information so far this year, suggests that the coho return is likely below pre-season expectation, but there is still a great deal of uncertainty.”

“We do face uncertainty in making these difficult management decisions, but the risk of leaving fisheries open too long and getting it wrong is too great with our salmon populations already in a precarious state of decline,” said Quinault Fisheries Policy Spokesperson Cleve Jackson. “Our shared responsibility to be good stewards of our sacred salmon requires us to be cautious and proactive before it’s too late.”

Based on preseason projections for spawning escapement – the number of salmon that escape fishermen and successfully reach spawning grounds – the Quinault Department of Fisheries opened tribal commercial and guide fisheries for Queets River Coho on September 1st and tribal commercial fisheries on the Humptulips and Chehalis River (which both empty into Grays Harbor) on October 1st.

After observing far below expected catch numbers anticipated by the Pacific Fishery Management Council’s preseason projections, QIN decided in October to close its fisheries early.

A full season for Grays Harbor tribal commercial fisheries and the Queets River tribal guide fishery would have run until November 30.

The October 30 letter from QIN to WDFW states “Despite considerable social and economic consequences for its communities, the QIN has closed its Queets and Grays Harbor fisheries. We are distressed and frankly mystified over WDFW’s reluctance to take comparable actions.”

In further explaining QIN’s decision to close its fisheries, Jackson commented “Our ocean, where salmon spend most of their lives, is sick. Heat waves, acidification, harmful algal blooms, and disrupted food webs are becoming the rule rather than the exception. On land, we are facing challenges from growth and development, warming temperatures, droughts, floods, invasive species, plastic and chemical pollution, and other environmental degradation. The earth is out of balance. Our future is getting more uncertain and unpredictable. Our ancestors have taught us that we are part of the environment, not apart from it. We have the responsibility to make hard decisions to care for the whole, our communities, the land, forests, water, air, fish, plants, and animals for today and tomorrow.”
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1062804 - 11/16/23 12:15 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1515
Loc: Tacoma
Well, considering that they left open the salmon river for steelhead, and continued to allow the take of wild Steelhead last year while we got shut out, I do not think we should have to take their lead. That is not too say it might not be the correct action, but the differences in impact between their fishery on wild fish and ours makes their argument very weak.

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#1062805 - 11/16/23 12:18 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
5 * General Evo Offline
Lord of the Chums

Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 6759
they are doing it for a reason, and it has nothing to do with the fish...

WDFW closed all the coastal rivers last year for Steelhead, the guides on the Quinault had no problem killing any fish they brought to the boat...

in 2008 or whatever it was, WDFW closed the Hoh due to low returns, the tribe never stopped netting, and took over 80 percent of harvestable (estimated) fish...

the past 6 years they have closed the Puyallup early to protect the chum and late silvers, yet the tribes have no problem netting the hell out of them below Clarks, and no problem selling them to russian businessmen and others right out of their totes underneath the 66th street bridge...

they talk about problems with "growth and development" aka "buidling and population increase", yet have no problem building larger casinos and parking areas to bring in the money from the population growth...

it was/is, never about the fish.. its about money...

and by money, i mean the federal money they and the commercials are about to get for the hardship they are going to face by not raping the resource and profiting from it... and its going to be tens of millions likely...

they are trying to see how much they can get away with, and sadly, the state sucks at poker, so we are likely screwed....
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