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#135660 - 01/17/02 08:54 AM ATTN:BUBZILLA,JIM SWAN,KROME BRITE,ELK RUN,SILVER HILTON, I have the spin/fly waters
fishnjunkie Offline

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 22
Hey guys, I wanted to set the record straight.So regarding the permit in question. I recently obtained my permit, after having the fish and wildlife commission uananimously approve my request, and grant me a permit that is valid for life. this permit was a result of Washington state following the actions of another state and then allowing for any input from the different user groups in Washington. I think WDFW is looking at the miniscule amount of people that would qualify to even apply for this permit, and that the chances are slim to none that they would have all the requirments to be granted the permit.I think I may be the only one in the state who has been given the permit. Dont quote me on that. This permit requires that at my exspense submit in writing to the department a written request for the applications, and a doctors note stating that i do in fact have a disability. After the applications are set, I must have a full evaluation at my cost from a doctor who specializes in upper extremity injuries. there are numerous questions that must be filled out by the physician. I must have with medical objective findings ,to prove the fact that I suffer from an upper extremirty disability that is permanent and does severely limit my ability to perform the repetetiv motions of overhead casting and the normal functions of fly fishing in general, this injury has to be in which you will never regain that mobility. You must have all this paperwork completed and have an office stamp from the Drs office and 2 signatures. This then can require the opionon of another Dr.These documents if falsified carry a federal crime and the doctor will lose his liscence and face jail time. I would certainly go to jail The state perfers that you have some prior involvement in fly fishing and that you can verify any information you provide. An example of the kind of injury that would qualify a person for this permit. my injury occurred in 1997 and involved a shattered collarbone ,2 punctures to my lungs,, broken ribs.L2-3, L4-5, L5-S1 herniated and fractured discs. and nerve and muscle damage in the arm and neck this has required 4 surgeries to control. This permit allows me to fish in any waters that are determined to be fly fishing only waters. I can use any type of spin gear and any type of rod. I can use artificial lures with barblese hooks, I must conform with the retention rules of that area. I must wear the permit in plain view on the outside of my clothes and carry a written letter from the state explaining my situation. . So this permit does not come easily and i would take my health back in a second. However i do think a #3 vibrax in certain waters with prescion casting could lead to some memorable days. I then ask if you were going to use this permit what waters would you choose and why....I intend on using a 10ft noodle rod with 6# test and where it is possible a hook and yarn will be my offering. I intend to respect any anglers that i encounter and allow them the run of the water and I will avoid any anglers in general as i prefer to be solo anyways. Whats the consensus????

#135661 - 01/17/02 11:25 AM Re: ATTN:BUBZILLA,JIM SWAN,KROME BRITE,ELK RUN,SILVER HILTON, I have the spin/fly waters
Old Man Offline

Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 763
Loc: Silver Star,Mt
I have no beefs against that law. In fact I think that I was standing up for it if you read my post right. I just think that some people take advantage of such things. In fact it made me think of something that I saw on the N/F Stilly one summer. People were camping and fishing the river with spinning gear. I told them that this river was fly fishing only and they said that they were targeting suckers. Thats how people take advantage of fishing. No, they didn't quit but I left. I think that there is enough water out there for everyone. Just respect it. smile
I forgot what I was supposed remember.

#135662 - 01/17/02 11:44 AM Re: ATTN:BUBZILLA,JIM SWAN,KROME BRITE,ELK RUN,SILVER HILTON, I have the spin/fly waters
HillbillyRedneck Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/11/00
Posts: 123
Loc: Darrington, WA
There are so many people gear fishing on the N.F.Stilly during the summer I doubt anyone would even notice, especially a game warden.

#135663 - 01/17/02 10:57 PM Re: ATTN:BUBZILLA,JIM SWAN,KROME BRITE,ELK RUN,SILVER HILTON, I have the spin/fly waters
silver hilton Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
Well, that's quite a list of injuries. Sorry to hear of it. But it doesn't sound like you are immobile, and you can cast, so, good for you.

But that does create some questions for me. As an avid bait caster, fly caster, and golfer, I have a bit of knowledge of what it takes to fish and use the arms. And I find it a little hard to believe that you can cast a spinning rod, but can't cast a fly rod. Just doesn't make sense to me. It uses the same muscles. Maybe there's something I don't get here, or maybe you have to make a cast and then writhe in agony for ten minutes before you retrieve. Probably something I don't get here.

Maybe you don't cast the same way I do. But when I was hit with problems early this year, I simply couldn't fish with my right arm. Bait, fly, spin, golf, it was all out. Life sucked. I could troll. Period.

Then, after several month of physical therapy and rest, I became able to cast again. For me, all forms of casting became possible as I healed. Spey casting, in particular was easy, as a simple body sway is the largest part of the cast. So at least one person can fly cast when injured. Maybe you can't, in which case I'm sorry. But the unspoken message in your question reads to me like this: "Hey, guys, I can get around the fly fishing only rule and gear fish in the fly waters. Where should I go to be a jerk first?"

Heck, I don't care how you fish the waters. I fish them both ways myself. As appropriate by the laws and rules in place at the time that I fish. I just don't know why you'd want to fish waters that are easily fishable with a fly with other gear. If you are fit enough to fish with gear, I suspect you are fit enough to fish with a fly. Frankly, I can't imagine how you wouldn't be. If you are not so abled, my sympathies. But as I read the description of your injuries, it seems likely to me that you could fly cast. I have had my own bout of injuries that I worked through this past year, and I learned to spey cast in part to deal with these issues. I suspect that you could do the same. If you wanted to.

Implicit in your question is the belief that these waters are somehow brimming with fish that the gear anglers are unable to have a chance to catch. They're not. The reason steelhead fly anglers ask to have a few rivers managed for fly fishing only is because fly anglers need to attack the water differently than gear anglers. Fly anglers commonly enter a run at the top, make a cast, take a step down, make a cast, take a step down, and so on through the run. If everyone knows the drill, 10 guys can fish a drift at the same time, each moving through as they fish.

Gear guys pick a rock, stand on it, and cast for a while. If one gear guy jams himself into the middle of a line of fly guys, all the fly guys are screwed, and the gear guy is just fat, dumb and happy. He may not even know how many people he is pissing off.

Fly guys need more room between each other than gear guys. If two fly guys are fishing 30 feet apart, they have barely enough room to cast safely, whereas two gear guys can make do fishing 10 feet apart.

The two styles of fishing are incompatible if there are a lot of guys on the river. This is why the fly guys want a river that they can fish themselves.

The Skykomish has a lot more fish than the Stilly. The statistics prove it. If you want to gear fish, I suggest you go there. Access is easy and there are plenty of fish.

It sounds like you think you have the way to get permission to fish the fly rivers. Go to it. I hope you will be sensitive as to how the other fisherfolk are moving through the run, and fit yourself to the rhythym. If you do, you will have proved that it was appropriate to give you the permit.

It is your own moral choice as to what you do here. Are you the type of person who views the vagaries of legal language as an opportunity to deal yourself a favored hand, or do you think you should be treated as equal to the others around you?

I don't really care what your answer to my question is. I have had to answer the question, what do I do when I can't fly fish due to injuries, and I have spent a lot of time on the Skykomish as a result. Don't expect me to be particularly sympathetic to your approach.

#135664 - 01/17/02 11:39 PM Re: ATTN:BUBZILLA,JIM SWAN,KROME BRITE,ELK RUN,SILVER HILTON, I have the spin/fly waters
G-MAN Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 403
If I could fish anywhere, anyway I wanted no question about it it would be Cranberry Lake, by Deception pass. PERIOD! I'd fish it with a 501 or 502 chrome/redhead Super Duper. REALLY BIG FISH!!!! This would make alot of Flyers mad but it's your right. Fish avg 21" and up to six pounds. Rainbows and German Browns.
"Life is tough!, it's tougher when your STUPID!!
"What don't kill you, will only make you Stronger!'

#135665 - 01/17/02 11:46 PM Re: ATTN:BUBZILLA,JIM SWAN,KROME BRITE,ELK RUN,SILVER HILTON, I have the spin/fly waters
Bubzilla Offline
Eyed Egg

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 6
Sorry to hear about your injuries. Wish I were more familiar with the fly fishing only fisheries of Washington so that I could fill you in--'cause I would. I suggest getting yourself a copy of the regs and trying out several different locations. Some fly fishing specific magazines and books would probably be a big help with research too. Don't let anyone discourage you--fish away! Just don't expect a warm reception from other anglers. Unless Oregon and Washington fish are totally different--which I doubt--you can expect some banner days.

Good luck!

#135666 - 01/18/02 03:43 AM Re: ATTN:BUBZILLA,JIM SWAN,KROME BRITE,ELK RUN,SILVER HILTON, I have the spin/fly waters
RPetzold Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 1143
Loc: Everett, Wa
I must agree with most of what Silver Hilton said but I must disagree with what he said in regards to the reason why waters are made flyfishing only.

They are not made flyfishing only to accomadate flyfishers as much as they are to invoke a measure of conservation.

One of the origonal flyfishing waters in this state and the first steelhead river to be designated fly-only was the NF Stilly. This was done solely as a conservation measure to protect the magnificent yet fragile race of Deer Creek wild summer steelhead.

I would hate to see the damage one could do swinging a spoon or a spinner or drifting a corky or some form of an aritificial bait through the Deer Creek riffle in the middle of the summer. These fish are incredibly aggresive, you do not need to cast far and with the warmer temperatures of summer, the numbers of fish caught need to be limited. This is best done via a fly-only restriction.

It is something that I dont want to to see...not because I am against this proposal but because the protection of these fish come first.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: RPetzold ]
Ryan S. Petzold
'Sparkey' and/or 'Special'


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